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Artwork for Ruled by Reason
Microsoft
Antitrust Law
Monopolizing By Conditioning
Monopsony Power
Interlocking Directorates
Google
Antitrust Remedies
Raising Rivals Costs
Windows
Browser Market
Common Ownership

The American Antitrust Institute's Ruled by Reason podcast explores current topics in progressive antitrust with experts from enforcement, business, and academia. Ruled by Reason guests discuss and debate the benefits of competition for markets, consumers, and workers. We delve into the importance of antitrust enforcement for promoting competition in our markets and democratic values in civil soci... more

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Artwork for Ruled by Reason

Latest Episodes

In this episode of Ruled by Reason, AAI Senior Counsel David O. Fisher sits down with economist Ellie Prager to discuss her paper, Collusion Through Common Leadership, co-authored with Alejandro Herrera-Caicedo and Jessica Jeffers and accepted for ... more

In this episode of Ruled by Reason, guest host Roger Noll, Professor of Economics Emeritus at Stanford University and a member of the Jerry S. Cohen Award Selection Committee, sits down with Mark Lemley, the William H. Neukom Professor of Law at Stan... more

In this episode of Ruled by Reason, AAI Vice President and Director of Legal Advocacy Kathleen Bradish talks with Ron Schnell, a computer scientist, startup entrepreneur, and former general manager of the Technical Committee created to monitor Micros... more

In this episode of Ruled by Reason, AAI VP and Director of Legal Advocacy Kathleen Bradish speaks with Professor Jennifer Sturiale about how her recent work attempts to address the persistent gap between public concern over monopolies and the limits ... more

In this episode of Ruled by Reason, AAI President Randy Stutz talks with antitrust thought leader Michael Kades about the latest developments at the intersection of federal, state and private antitrust enforcement.

The conversation begins with a di... more

On this episode of Ruled by Reason, AAI Senior Counsel David O. Fisher talks with leading economist Ioana Marinescu about the theoretical frameworks underpinning labor monopsony and how they apply in various antitrust law and policy contexts.

The c... more

In this episode of Ruled by Reason, guest host John B. "Jack" Kirkwood, Professor of Law and the William C. Oltman Professor of Teaching Excellence at Seattle University School of Law, sits down with Daniel Francis, Assistant Professor of Law at NY... more

On this episode of Ruled by Reason, AAI Senior Counsel David O. Fisher chats with legal scholar Giovanna Massarotto about what antitrust law can learn from computer science, and particularly how understanding agreement algorithms can help courts and ... more

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Recent Guests

Mark Lemley
William H. Neukom Professor of Law at Stanford University; co-author of Anticompetitive Directors
Stanford Law School; Lex Lumina (partner)
Episode: Interlocking Directorates and the Antitrust Laws: A Conversation Between Roger Noll and Mark Lemley, Jerry S. Cohen Award Winner for Antitrust Scholarship
Ron Schnell
Computer scientist with four decades in technology; former general manager and chief executive of the Technical Committee for US v. Microsoft, overseeing compliance monitoring
Keystone (technology fellow); co-author on Stanford Computational Antitrust Journal article
Episode: Making Big Tech Antitrust Remedies Stick Beyond the Courtroom: A Conversation with Ron Schnell
Jennifer Sturiale
Associate Professor of Law at Delaware Law School; former Clemenco Fellow at Harvard Law School; expert on antitrust and civil procedure
Delaware Law School
Episode: Taking an "Extra" Look at Addressing Monopolization: A Conversation with Jennifer Sturiale
Michael Kades
Former Deputy Assistant Attorney General for Civil Enforcement at the DOJ Antitrust Division; founder of private antitrust practice focused on public entity litigation
Nachewati Law Group
Episode: The Three-Legged Stool of U.S. Antitrust Enforcement: A Conversation with Michael Kades
Ioana Marinescu
Associate professor at University of Pennsylvania, expert on labor monopsony
University of Pennsylvania; National Bureau of Economic Research
Episode: From Labor Market Theory to Antitrust Policy: A Conversation with Ioana Marinescu
Daniel Francis
Jerry S. Cohen Award Winner for Antitrust Scholarship; Professor of Law at NYU
New York University School of Law
Episode: Monopolizing by Conditioning: A Conversation Between Jack Kirkwood and Daniel Francis, Jerry S. Cohen Award Winner for Antitrust Scholarship

Hosts

Randy Stutz
Host of Ruled by Reason discussions guiding episodes with a focus on antitrust policy and enforcement.
Kathleen Bradish
Host of Ruled by Reason discussions guiding episodes with a focus on antitrust policy and enforcement.

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Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

From Labor Market Theory to Antitrust Policy: A Conversation with Ioana Marinescu
Q: What are the three theoretical frameworks that contribute to Monopsony Power?
They are oligopsony, differentiated jobs, and search and matching frictions, each explaining different ways that competition for workers can be limited and wages kept below marginal productivity.
Monopolizing by Conditioning: A Conversation Between Jack Kirkwood and Daniel Francis, Jerry S. Cohen Award Winner for Antitrust Scholarship
Q: Would volume discounts ever be considered monopolizing by conditioning?
Volume discounts alone generally do not count as conditioning unless they are selectively punishing a partner for dealing with a rival or otherwise tying behavior to rivals; otherwise they are common, pro-competitive tools, though some restricted forms could still raise concerns.
Monopolizing by Conditioning: A Conversation Between Jack Kirkwood and Daniel Francis, Jerry S. Cohen Award Winner for Antitrust Scholarship
Q: How does conditioning relate to Raising Rivals Costs and the standard framework for evaluating monopolization?
Conditioning fits within a broader Section 2 theory consisting of exclusion, contribution to monopoly power, lack of privilege, and a justification analysis; it interacts with the Raising Rivals Costs idea by emphasizing rival impact and the necessary connection to power, not merely market exclusion.
Monopolizing by Conditioning: A Conversation Between Jack Kirkwood and Daniel Francis, Jerry S. Cohen Award Winner for Antitrust Scholarship
Q: Daniel, what do you mean by monopolizing by conditioning?
There are two core pieces: a definition of monopolization and a separate focus on conditioning as a distinct form of exclusion that harms competition, especially when a unilateral policy punishes rivals or those who deal with rivals without an explicit agreement.
Interlocking Directorates and the Antitrust Laws: A Conversation Between Roger Noll and Mark Lemley, Jerry S. Cohen Award Winner for Antitrust Scholarship
Q: Given the data, how should regulators think about addressing interlocking directorates without overhauling the entire framework?
Use the data to identify high-risk cases for closer scrutiny, consider targeted enforcement tools, and explore structural reforms like disclosure and pre-clearance to reduce opportunities for problematic interlocks while preserving legitimate board governance.

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Frequently Asked Questions About Ruled by Reason

What is Ruled by Reason about and what kind of topics does it cover?

The episodes feature deep, policy-focused conversations on competition, market power, and regulatory reform, driven by leading academics, lawyers, and industry experts. Topics include interlocking directorates, antitrust remedies in tech platforms, novel approaches to monopolization, the balance between enforcement and incentives, and labor-market dynamics within antitrust. The discussions blend empirical data, historical case studies, and forward-looking policy proposals, often grounded in real-world enforcement experiences and court-adjacent remedies. A notable strength is the ability to translate complex legal and economic theory into practical implications for regulators, practitioners, and business leaders, with recurring emphasis on h... more

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What guests have appeared on Ruled by Reason?

Recent guests on Ruled by Reason include:

1. Mark Lemley
2. Ron Schnell
3. Jennifer Sturiale
4. Michael Kades
5. Ioana Marinescu
6. Daniel Francis

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