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The Argument

The Argument
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Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending?

Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds.

This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball inte... more

PublishesWeeklyEpisodes43Foundeda year ago
Number of ListenersCategories
NewsSociety & Culture

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Artwork for The Argument

Latest Episodes

Who actually counts as an elite in America?

The Argument ran its own poll on elite perception, and the results scramble a lot of conventional wisdom. Billionaires and celebrities are the only groups a majority of Americans call elite. College profes... more

Is there really a loneliness crisis?

Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias read Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone, the 2000 classic that diagnosed America's collapse in community life. They argue about how bad the loneliness problem really is today, and wh... more

YouTube

Many people say the #MeToo movement went too far. Jerusalem Demsas disagrees: she thinks it didn't go far enough. Matt Yglesias wants to talk about what the movement actually was, and worries about the risks of a leaderless movement without clear sta... more

YouTube

Most Americans still see buying a home as the ultimate financial goal, but Jerusalem Demsas thinks homeownership is overrated. Matt Yglesias, a proud homeowner, disagrees. They get into why the American Dream might be a bad financial deal, what's rea... more

YouTube

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Recent Guests

Timothy Lee
Guest from Understanding AI
Understanding AI
Episode: Why AI might not replace us after all
Paul Eastwick
Professor of psychology at UC Davis; author of Bonded by Evolution
University of California, Davis
Episode: Stop Letting Instagram Explain Your Love Life -- The Science of Attraction
Jennifer Doleac
Economist, executive vice president of criminal justice at Arnold Ventures
Arnold Ventures
Episode: The Scientific Method Comes for Criminal Justice
Ross Douthat
New York Times opinion columnist
The New York Times
Episode: Ross Douthat on the End of Conservatism
Carolina Arteaga
Assistant Professor of Economics, University of Toronto
University of Toronto
Episode: Did the Opioid Epidemic Help Republicans Win?
Rita Koganzon
Associate professor and political theorist at UNC Chapel Hill
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Episode: Are Children People?
Chris Elmendorf
Law professor at the University of California, Davis; prominent housing policy researcher and commentator
University of California, Davis
Episode: Why NIMBYs Oppose Housing (with Chris Elmendorf)
Matthew Yglesias
Liberal politics and policy writer, guest on The Argument
The Argument
Episode: Matthew Yglesias on What Went Wrong with Modern Liberalism?
Gabriele Gratton
Professor of politics and economics at the University of New South Wales
University of New South Wales
Episode: How Liberal Elite Failure Fueled Far-Right Populism

Hosts

Jerusalem Demsas
Host and policy analyst known for rigorous, data-backed arguments and a distinctive point of view on policy topics.
Matthew Yglesias
Co-host known for policy critique and data-driven debate in partnership with Jerusalem Demsas.

Reviews

4.7 out of 5 stars from 178 ratings
  • Great show

    Great podcast but the only one I listen to at 0.8x speed

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Jdkalcihwvakclor
    United Statesa month ago
  • Right?

    Matthew, I challenge you to complete an episode without ending a sentence with “Right?”

    Apple Podcasts
    3
    willow-sc
    United Statesa month ago
  • 5+ stars

    I was really excited when the current iteration of this pod became a thing because I’m a very long time fan of both hosts. Topic selection and substance of conversations were unsurprisingly great from day 1. A somewhat unexpected development over the past 4 months I’ve listened is that I find myself laughing quite a bit listening. This podcast migrating from the commentary to the commentary/humor category for me was cemented listening to the 7/23 AI episode with Yglesias bringing up his affectio... more

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Saraelzp
    United Statesa month ago
  • A mirror image of Bari Weiss

    Update: subtracting two stars because Demsas is magic on her own, but Demsas/Yglesias is just fine.

    Not sure Demsas would see this as a compliment, but I see a lot of similarities between what she’d doing at The Argument and what Bari Weiss accomplished at TFP. Both are renewal projects for the American journalistic landscape, and both have me very excited about the future of American media. Recently, Bari Weiss identified the need for a loud, charismatic voice to represent American centrists l... more

    Apple Podcasts
    3
    quitemichael
    United Statesa month ago
  • Great show

    Jerusalem and Matt are great together!

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    NMS_nyc
    United States2 months ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Guests and topics receive positive buzz for depth, thoughtfulness, and real-world relevance.
Audience appreciates breadth of topics and clear willingness to challenge conventional wisdom.
Some praise chemistry between hosts, while others note pacing and interruptions can be challenging.
Listeners value the rigorous, thoughtful debates and data-backed arguments.

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Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Why NIMBYs Oppose Housing (with Chris Elmendorf)
Q: What policy recommendations emerge from your findings?
Focus up-zoning and development in areas with existing apartment stock or commercial use, pursue transit-oriented development, and consider pre-approved designs to reduce discretionary hurdles; broader strategies include improving how developers engage with communities and considering larger-scale land assembly to better integrate new buildings aesthetically.
Why NIMBYs Oppose Housing (with Chris Elmendorf)
Q: How did aesthetics become central to housing attitudes in your research?
The team found that people's feelings toward cities and the visual fit of tall buildings with existing streetscapes are strongly linked to support for or opposition to housing, and that people react more to aesthetic context than to proximity alone; experiments manipulated visuals, awards for architects, and building types to show these effects.
Why NIMBYs Oppose Housing (with Chris Elmendorf)
Q: What does the political science literature say about housing opposition already?
There are two dominant explanations—the home-voter hypothesis and the NIMBY model—but in practice, opposition often blends these with concerns about parking, schools, and perceived developer greed; the theory is that people rely on heuristics and trusted messengers to form views on policy.
Matthew Yglesias on What Went Wrong with Modern Liberalism?
Q: What went wrong with modern liberalism and how did it become entangled with group-based thinking?
The guest argues that liberalism absorbed collectivist and identity-focused reasoning as a response to real injustices, but over time those group-based generalizations began to erode commitments to judging people as individuals, which can undermine universal rights and create new forms of exclusion.
Did the Opioid Epidemic Help Republicans Win?
Q: What are the core findings of your study regarding opioid exposure and Republican vote share in 2022?
Places with higher cancer mortality in the 1990s, driven by promotion of opioid pain medications, show higher Republican vote shares in 2022, with effects accumulating over time across House, governor, and presidential races; the impact is larger in places with greater exposure to the epidemic and not easily explained by attractiveness to incumbents or other shocks.

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Frequently Asked Questions About The Argument

What is The Argument about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A sharp, policy-focused debate show where two seasoned political commentators square off on current events, policy trade-offs, and structural issues. Episodes span topics like MeToo, housing, AI in the workplace, oligarchy, and environmental policy, all anchored in data, research, and real-world examples. The format features each host arguing a distinctive point of view before a rigorous back-and-forth, with a clear emphasis on nuance over partisan screaming. Listeners can expect deep dives, practical implications for policy and markets, and thoughtful skepticism about conventional wisdom. A standout aspect is the hosts' commitment to evidence-driven discussion and a willingness to test ideas against empirical research, while maintaining en... more

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Which podcasts are similar to The Argument?

These podcasts share a similar audience with The Argument:

1. Politix
2. Central Air
3. Plain English with Derek Thompson
4. Interesting Times with Ross Douthat
5. Conversations with Tyler

How many episodes of The Argument are there?

The Argument launched a year ago and published 43 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on The Argument?

Recent guests on The Argument include:

1. Timothy Lee
2. Paul Eastwick
3. Jennifer Doleac
4. Ross Douthat
5. Carolina Arteaga
6. Rita Koganzon
7. Chris Elmendorf
8. Matthew Yglesias

To view more recent guests and their details, simply upgrade your Rephonic account. You'll also get access to a typical guest profile to help you decide if the show is worth pitching.

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