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This is a show about contemporary culture. First Things editors Virginia Aabram and Germán S. Díaz del Castillo discuss modern, online trends. Are they good, bad, or a secret third thing?

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Artwork for Secret Third Thing

Latest Episodes

Further reading:

• "Your Phone Isn’t a Drug. It’s a Portal to the Otherworld," by Katherine Dee (New York Times)

• "The Kirkification of Our Troubled Times," by Brady Brickner-Wood (New Yorker)

Further reading:

• What Happened at Vatican II by John W. O'Malley

• If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies, by Eliezer Yudkowsky

• Work in Progress: Confessions of a busboy, dishwasher, caddy, usher, factory worker, bank teller, corporate tool, and pri... more

Further reading:

• Kelly's X profile

• Kelly's Substack

• Secret Ballot

Further reading:

• "Magnifica Humanitas" by Leo XIV

• "AI Doesn’t Know What It’s Doing" by Thomas Fowler (First Things)

• "The Future of Reading" by Wessie Du Toit (First Things)

• "A Boomer, But An Augustinian" by Jacob Phillips (First Thing... more

Key Facts

Accepts Guests
Accepts Sponsors
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Number of Listeners
Find out how many people listen to this podcast per episode and each month.

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Recent Guests

Katherine Dee
Longtime writer on Internet ethnography, media theory, digital folklore, fandom, politics and identity
Episode: The Second Death of Charlie Kirk (ft. Katherine Dee)
Father James Martin
Priest of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits); author and organizer of LGBTQ Catholic outreach
America Magazine / Outreach.Faith
Episode: Pope Leo's Unified Church (ft. Fr. James Martin)
Kelly Chapman
Writer and cultural commentator known for Twitter persona Audrey Horne
First Things; Twitter: Audrey Horne
Episode: Christianity Is Not a Tool (ft. Kelly Chapman)
Dan Hitchens
Senior Editor at First Things
First Things
Episode: The Church of Claude (ft. Dan Hitchens)
Dave Greene
Writer, podcaster, streamer, First Things author
First Things Magazine
Episode: Conservative Culture Isn’t Real (ft. Dave Greene)
Suzy Weiss
Reporter and co-founder of the Free Press
Free Press
Episode: Timothée Chalamet Is Right About Art (ft. Suzy Weiss)
Nick Allen
Founder of Sovereign House and founder of RAIN
RAIN / Sovereign House
Episode: Dimes Square: An Oral History (ft. Nick Allen)
Vicki Clarke
Deputy editor at First Things
First Things
Episode: The Fanfiction Reckoning (ft. Veronica Clarke)

Hosts

Virginia Aabram
Host of Secret Third Thing, First Things magazine contributor; engages in culture and religion discourse with a Thomistic lens.
Germán Saucedo
Co-host and culture commentator; discusses religion, technology, and public life with a conservative-cultural perspective.

Reviews

4.6 out of 5 stars from 29 ratings
  • Disappointing

    As an avid reader and listener to all that First Things puts out - this show disappoints. Making repulsive comparisons of women’s body parts in the Timothee Chalamet episode is worse than vulgar. It insults all women. Reality check, Diaz del Castillo- there is more to women than body type.Even secular culture knows this. Expected more from a publication that seeks to honor the imago dei and further human flourishing.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    Shannon JM
    United States5 months ago
  • Suzy Weiss episode was cringe

    The covid bragging and figure skating takes were boring and lame. Weirdo.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    Yussssssssssddss
    United States5 months ago
  • Great New FT Addition

    Really enjoying this new show. The Dave Greene episode in particular made me feel sane and less alone. Virginia and Germán complement one one another very well. Keep it coming!

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Information-Age Convert
    United States6 months ago
  • Excellent

    Next generation of First Things talent provide thoughtful commentary on trends impacting our social fabric. Superb. A fun hang.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    AmericanParishPriest
    United States7 months ago
  • Promising

    Excited to hear more from this show!

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    LiturgiesOfLife
    United States9 months ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

A few episodes receive praise for chemistry between hosts and the guests.
There are critiques about some controversial comparisons or takes; overall appreciation for thoughtful dialogue.
Some listeners feel the tone is sharp and insightful, offering fresh takes on culture and media.

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Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

The Second Death of Charlie Kirk (ft. Katherine Dee)
Q: What do we gain or lose when the internet becomes a rival domain to the physical world?
We gain a shared, global storytelling space that can democratize influence, but we risk disincarnating the self from the body, where online fame becomes a force that can distort judgment, fuel radicalization, or trivialize serious events through constant meme churn.
The Second Death of Charlie Kirk (ft. Katherine Dee)
Q: Can you explain kirkification and why it matters for understanding online culture?
Kirkification is the process by which a person's image is saturated across digital media, creating a lasting, almost autonomous online persona that outlives the individual and influences both culture and politics; it illustrates how memes function as a contemporary folklore that binds communities and shapes perception.
The Second Death of Charlie Kirk (ft. Katherine Dee)
Q: Katherine, how did you first react to Charlie Kirk's death and the ensuing memes?
I felt a mix of sadness and alarm at how quickly digital culture can reshape a public figure's legacy, turning grief into a spectacle and revealing a larger pattern of online ritual around death and memory.
Conservative Culture Isn’t Real (ft. Dave Greene)
Q: Do you still consider yourself a distributist?
Ideology matters less than the motivating pathos of the ideology; distributism is valued for its critique of capitalism and its emphasis on family, community, and subsidiarity, even if a perfect policy framework isn't central.
Conservative Culture Isn’t Real (ft. Dave Greene)
Q: But we'll go through them quickly. So the first one is, I have had this theory for a while that Gen X doesn't exist. Why do you think this is the case?
Generational labels arise from media tech eras; Gen X is defined more by skepticism of institutions and the waning trust in television than by distinct cultural outputs. The boundaries blur as later generations inherit digital culture that shapes their attitudes.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About Secret Third Thing

What is Secret Third Thing about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A culture-focused show hosted by two First Things editors explores trends in contemporary culture, online discourse, and what they consider the “secret third thing” shaping society. Episodes frequently center on culture, religion, politics, and media, with guests who bring conservative or culturally conscious perspectives. Noteworthy is how conversations blend sharp cultural analysis with a willingness to grapple with complex tech, art, and public life, often linking ideas to broader social implications. Listeners seeking thoughtful takes on culture, media, and religion—especially from a traditional or Thomistic vantage—will likely find this show engaging, though it may challenge mainstream narratives at times.

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Which podcasts are similar to Secret Third Thing?

These podcasts share a similar audience with Secret Third Thing:

1. First Things Podcast
2. Conversations
3. The Thomistic Institute
4. Godsplaining
5. Pints With Aquinas

How many episodes of Secret Third Thing are there?

Secret Third Thing launched 9 months ago and published 8 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Secret Third Thing?

Recent guests on Secret Third Thing include:

1. Katherine Dee
2. Father James Martin
3. Kelly Chapman
4. Dan Hitchens
5. Dave Greene
6. Suzy Weiss
7. Nick Allen
8. Vicki Clarke

To view more recent guests and their details, simply upgrade your Rephonic account. You'll also get access to a typical guest profile to help you decide if the show is worth pitching.

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