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Artwork for Divided Argument

Divided Argument

Will Baude & Dan Epps
Supreme Court
Constitutional Law
Trump Administration
Second Amendment
Affirmative Action
Justice Alito
Voting Rights Act
Shadow Docket
Higher Education
Qualified Immunity
First Amendment
Administrative Law
Recusal Standards
Judicial Ethics
Capital Punishment
Tariffs
Gender Identity
Fourth Amendment
Emergency Docket
Eighth Amendment

An unscheduled, unpredictable Supreme Court podcast. Hosted by Will Baude and Dan Epps. In partnership with SCOTUSblog.

PublishesTwice monthlyEpisodes129Founded5 years ago
Number of ListenersCategories
NewsGovernmentPolitics

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Artwork for Divided Argument

Latest Episodes

The big opinions are starting to drop, and we're doing our best to keep pace. We first discuss Landor v. Louisiana Department of Corrections, which concerns religious liberty, the scope of Congress's power to create remedies against individuals under... more

We open with the usual grab bag—the "foot fault" pun buried in a Justice Thomas opinion, reading Justice Alito's clerk-hiring tea leaves, and a detour into the metaphysics of conditional resignations and whether you can be confirmed to a vacancy tha... more

After puzzling over an interesting follow-up question about Pitchford v. Cain, we unpack a summary vacatur in Whitton v. Dixon. We then spend a while breaking down the latest developments in Allen v. Milligan line, in which we discuss the future of t... more

The Court has been busy, and we somehow manage to cover a number of developments with unpredictable efficiency. We talk about the Court's latest summary reversal on the "party presentation principle"; Justice Kavanaugh's vindication of his law journ... more

Key Facts

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Recent Guests

Pam Karlan
Professor of Public Interest Law at Stanford Law School; co-director of the Supreme Court Litigation Clinic
Stanford Law School
Episode: Ninja Court Packing
Justin Driver
Robert R. Slaughter Professor of Law and author of The Fall of Affirmative Action
University of Chicago Law School
Episode: Proust or Plato
Richard Primus
Professor at the University of Michigan Law School and author of The Oldest Constitutional Question, Enumeration and Federal Power
University of Michigan Law School
Episode: Bedrock Con Law 101
Steve Sachs
Antonin Scalia Professor of Law at Harvard Law School with expertise in Civil Procedure and Constitutional Law.
Harvard Law School
Episode: Loose Signification
Rachel Barkow
NYU law professor and author
New York University
Episode: Gorsuch Genie
Oren Kerr
New addition to the Stanford Law Faculty
Stanford Law School
Episode: Double Negatives
Daryl Levinson
David Boyce Professor of Law at NYU School of Law
NYU School of Law
Episode: Separation-of-Powers Police

Hosts

Will Baude
Co-host and regular host; law professor with a focus on constitutional law and statutory interpretation.
Dan Epps
Co-host and regular host; law professor with expertise in constitutional law and Supreme Court procedure.

Reviews

4.9 out of 5 stars from 1.2k ratings
  • Smart, engaging discussion

    As a fellow jurist I can appreciate a well informed examination of American jurisprudence.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Cnboyd
    United States16 days ago
  • My favorite Supreme Court podcast

    There are quite a few popular podcasts focused on the Supreme Court these days. Divided Argument is in a class of its own. If you’re looking for partisan takes that confirm your priors, look elsewhere. Baude and Epps are serious legal scholars who would find hackery embarrassing. If Learned Hand was right that the spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right, Divided Argument exudes the spirit of liberty. Baude comes from the right-of-center originalist world, Epps from... more

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    VOP96
    United States17 days ago
  • Top notch

    Funny, informative and really smart. Just the right amount of conflict, too. I’m hoping for decades of running commentary on the Court from this duo.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    S Mikhail
    United States17 days ago
  • Good stuff

    A couple bros who take the law thing seriously, yapping. Scratches the conlaw cartalk itch. Not for people who want super-political takes or can’t fathom law existing conceptually beyond tribalist politics. Repeat themselves often, go on some bizarre tangents, but always at least intellectually stimulating or entertaining. Often both. Caveat, I’m occasionally lost by some commentary if I didn’t read the case.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    The Last Reasonable Person
    United States17 days ago
  • Likely best legal pod

    Not always for non-lawyers, but for lawyers it’s probably the best legal podcast—at least for appellate/SCOTUS cases. Both hosts are brilliant, challenge each other’s ideas, and bring top-notch analysis to complex legal issues. Also pretty funny.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Second year associate
    United States17 days ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Great balance of depth and accessibility; occasionally dense for casual listeners.
Chemistry between hosts makes complex topics approachable.
Insightful, rigorous analysis of Supreme Court issues.
Strong guest dynamics and up-to-date coverage of major cases.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#12
United States/Government
Apple Podcasts
#92
Canada/Government
Apple Podcasts
#145
United Kingdom/Government
Apple Podcasts
#68
Australia/Government
Apple Podcasts
#136
Italy/Government
Apple Podcasts
#14
Argentina/Government

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Ninja Court Packing
Q: Do you think the Court's handling of the Callais/Milligan posture accurately reflects a principled stance or a strategic one?
Pam Karlan suggests the Court's move was technically narrow and perhaps driven by procedural concerns rather than a clear-merits ruling, indicating a strategic compromise rather than a definitive constitutional stance.
Counter-Counter-Counter-Designations
Q: What did you learn about deposition designations and counter counter designations?
There are interesting procedural layers in law that include terms like counter designations and counter counter designations, showing the complexities in how legal documents are filed and contested.
Proust or Plato
Q: Do you think affirmative action will still be necessary in 25 years?
The challenge is understanding how the timing of admissions policies ties to the Supreme Court's decisions, and future justices might not allow extensions of current practices without clear motivation.
Proust or Plato
Q: What do you think are the rules for how schools can grade them?
Admissions officers would need to credit a white applicant who states their difficulties have a racial dimension, ensuring fairness in evaluation.
Bedrock Con Law 101
Q: What do you think the world should look like if everyone were to accept your book?
First choice would actually be to maintain the tension, as the tension is fine with me. However, the model of implied powers is also a viable way of reducing limitations on congressional authority.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

Listeners per Episode
Gender Skew
Location
Interests
Professions
Age Range
Household Income
Social Media Reach

Frequently Asked Questions About Divided Argument

What is Divided Argument about and what kind of topics does it cover?

This unscheduled, unpredictable Supreme Court podcast features two law professors who dissect high-profile decisions and the broader doctrinal shifts they signal. Across episodes, deep dives into voting rights, shadow docket dynamics, procedural nuance, and the Court's approach to federalism and executive power are balanced with witty banter and lively debate. Notable for its long-form, argumentative style and willingness to reframe conventional narratives, it often pairs rigorous legal analysis with accessible commentary, guest experts, and occasional live audience energy. A strong selling point is the chemistry and clear, candid exchanges between the hosts, making complex constitutional questions approachable for legally literate listener... more

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Which podcasts are similar to Divided Argument?

These podcasts share a similar audience with Divided Argument:

1. Amarica's Constitution
2. Advisory Opinions
3. U.S. Supreme Court Oral Arguments
4. We the People
5. The Dispatch Podcast

How many episodes of Divided Argument are there?

Divided Argument launched 5 years ago and published 129 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Divided Argument?

Recent guests on Divided Argument include:

1. Pam Karlan
2. Justin Driver
3. Richard Primus
4. Steve Sachs
5. Rachel Barkow
6. Oren Kerr
7. Daryl Levinson

To view more recent guests and their details, simply upgrade your Rephonic account. You'll also get access to a typical guest profile to help you decide if the show is worth pitching.

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