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Administrative Law
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The C. Boyden Gray Center for the Administrative State, at George Mason University’s Antonin Scalia Law School, supports research and debate on the modern administrative state, and the constitutional issues surrounding it. In this podcast, we’ll discuss some of the questions being debated around modern administration — some new questions, some timeless ones. And you can also get the audio from Gra... more

PublishesTwice monthlyEpisodes170Founded7 years ago
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Government

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Artwork for Gray Matters

Latest Episodes

Oklahoma Secretary of Energy and Environment Jeff Starling and the Fulcrum Foundation’s Reeve Bull discuss a new regulatory reform pilot project in Oklahoma. They share how Oklahoma is using AI to reform regulatory processes, reduce costs, and improv... more

Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss talk with NCLA President and Chief Legal Officer Mark Chenoweth about the evolving landscape of injunctions in the legal system, particularly in light of recent cases likeTrump v. CASA. They explore the definition and fu... more

Adam White, Jace Lington, and Bennett Nuss analyze the recent Supreme Court decisions in Trump v. Slaughter and Trump v. Cook, focusing on the implications for executive power, administrative agency independence, and the future of administrative law.... more

Adam White hosts Chief Judge Susan G. Braden (Ret.) to discuss the Supreme Court’s decision in Trump v. Slaughter, which held the Federal Trade Commission’s statutory independence unconstitutional and explicitly overruled Humphrey’s Executor. Braden ... more

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Recent Guests

Jeff Starling
Oklahoma Secretary of Energy and Environment
Oklahoma Department of Energy and Environment
Episode: Jeff Starling and Reeve Bull on Using AI for Regulatory Reform in Oklahoma
Reeve Bull
Policy Director at the Fulcrum Foundation
Fulcrum Foundation
Episode: Jeff Starling and Reeve Bull on Using AI for Regulatory Reform in Oklahoma
Mark Chenoweth
President of the New Civil Liberties Alliance
New Civil Liberties Alliance
Episode: NCLA's Mark Chenoweth on the State of Injunctive Relief
Susan G. Braden
Chief Judge, U.S. Court of Federal Claims (former); long-time public service at the Federal Trade Commission
U.S. Court of Federal Claims; Gray Center Advisory Council
Episode: Quo Vadis—Federal Trade Commission? Chief Judge Susan Braden on the Future of the FTC after Slaughter
Megan Brown
Attorney at Wiley Rein
Wiley Rein
Episode: What Are the Post-Chevron Courts Doing? (Notice & Comment May 2026 Conference Panel 1)
Roman Martinez
Attorney at Latham & Watkins
Latham & Watkins
Episode: What Are the Post-Chevron Courts Doing? (Notice & Comment May 2026 Conference Panel 1)
Maria Monaghan
Attorney, U.S. Chamber Litigation Center
U.S. Chamber Litigation Center
Episode: What Are the Post-Chevron Courts Doing? (Notice & Comment May 2026 Conference Panel 1)
Noah Phillips
Lawyer in private practice at Cravath, Swain & Moore; former FTC Commissioner
Cravath, Swain & Moore; FTC
Episode: Antitrust Policy in a Populist Era
Matt Stoller
Director of Research at the American Economic Liberties Project; writes The Big Newsletter
American Economic Liberties Project
Episode: Antitrust Policy in a Populist Era

Hosts

Jace Lington
Policy and Strategy Director at The C. Boyden Gray Center; host of the show, with focus on administrative state analysis.
Adam White
Host and executive director involved in discussions on administrative law and center policy.
Bennett Nuss
Executive guest/host with expertise in constitutional and administrative law.

Reviews

5.0 out of 5 stars from 18 ratings
  • Wonkery

    Panel discussions on policy matters. If you want extremely detailed wonkery, this is the place to get it.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Sebastian Fjori
    United States5 years ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Wonkery and policy-depth appeal to policy wonks
Strong guest lineups boost credibility and depth
Can be dense; rewards careful listening

Chart Rankings

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Apple Podcasts
#206
Poland/Government

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Jeff Starling and Reeve Bull on Using AI for Regulatory Reform in Oklahoma
Q: What is the next step to expand this beyond DEQ—legislative action or gubernatorial initiative?
Both paths are possible; the legislature must fund and codify the expansion, while the governor can provide leadership to push the initiative forward, showing the value proposition to lawmakers.
Jeff Starling and Reeve Bull on Using AI for Regulatory Reform in Oklahoma
Q: What are the biggest time savings realized by staff when using AI in the rulemaking and permitting processes?
The AI dramatically reduces hours spent on tasks like drafting rules and prioritizing regulatory impacts; in one recent example, tasks that would take 40-50 hours by a staff member were completed in a few hours, with humans still providing review and edits.
Jeff Starling and Reeve Bull on Using AI for Regulatory Reform in Oklahoma
Q: Did the integration with federal regulations pose any problems for the AI system or was it able to switch between federal and state requirements easily?
It was integrated in how we looked at it and we managed the federal overlay by treating it as an ongoing context that the AI could navigate alongside state authorities, with human review to ensure alignment with federal requirements.
NCLA's Mark Chenoweth on the State of Injunctive Relief
Q: How does the APA interact with these injunctions and what is the future of complete relief?
APA Section 706 allows district courts to set aside unlawful agency rules for the nation, establishing a backstop for the administrative state; the future direction depends on how the Court interprets complete relief and whether broader remedies are necessary to provide full relief.
NCLA's Mark Chenoweth on the State of Injunctive Relief
Q: What are injunctions, and how did CASA change their use?
Injunctions are early-litigation tools to preserve the status quo; CASA restricted when district judges can issue universal or nationwide injunctions, forcing closer scrutiny of whether such relief is appropriate for the entire country.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About Gray Matters

What is Gray Matters about and what kind of topics does it cover?

Long-form discussions around the modern administrative state, focusing on how Supreme Court decisions and congressional delegations reshape the balance of power between the presidency, federal agencies, and courts. Episodes repeatedly unpack issues like agency independence, non-delegation, major questions doctrine, and the evolving role of enforcement discretion, often tying doctrinal debates to practical governance, staffing, and rulemaking. Notable is the consistent emphasis on legal interpretation, constitutional structure, and the practical implications for agencies such as the FTC and the Federal Reserve, with frequent panel-style dialogue among scholars, practitioners, and policy analysts. A strength is the rigorous, wonk-friendly tre... more

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1. The Separation of Powers
2. Divided Argument
3. Law Talk With Epstein, Yoo & Cooke
4. Advisory Opinions
5. All Things with Kim Strassel

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Gray Matters launched 7 years ago and published 170 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Gray Matters?

Recent guests on Gray Matters include:

1. Jeff Starling
2. Reeve Bull
3. Mark Chenoweth
4. Susan G. Braden
5. Megan Brown
6. Roman Martinez
7. Maria Monaghan
8. Noah Phillips

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