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The Art of the Zag

Joe Lazer and Shane Snow
Artificial Intelligence
Substack
Media
Storytelling
Hamish Mckenzie
Economics Of Subscriptions

Best-selling authors and long-time buddies Shane Snow and Joe Lazer explore how to win by zagging when everyone else is zigging—in business and in life. Learn breakthrough strategies for building trust, telling better stories, and winning the AI Age from the world's most innovative founders, authors, and icons. Have an idea for a guest? Email guest@joelazer.com. storytellingedge.substack.com

PublishesWeeklyEpisodes7Founded2 months ago
Number of ListenersCategories
BusinessTechnologyEntrepreneurship

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Latest Episodes

Why don't we trust the Terminator? He's strong, smart, and always keeps his word — but nobody would trust him. The answer reveals the hidden psychology of trust that most people never think about.

In this episode, Joe Lazer and Shane Snow sit down w... more

A 55-year-old man had metal plates ripped from his leg with zero painkillers. His vital signs stayed completely stable. How? The science of belief — and it changes everything you think about your limits.

Bestselling author Nir Eyal (Hooked, Indistra... more

In this episode, Shane Snow interviews Joe Lazer about his new book—Super Skill: Why Storytelling Is the Superpower of the AI Age, which launched this past week as an Amazon #1 New Release. They dissect why companies like Anthropic and OpenAI are pay... more

There’s one terrifying fact about AI that most people are shocked to learn: They’re a black box. We don’t really know how they work.

That’s right—we’re spending trillions of dollars on a technology that’s almost zoodoo magic.

The consequences of th... more

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Recent Guests

Joe Lazer
Author of Super Skill
Author, Super Skill
Episode: The 3 forces behind those $500K business storytelling roles
Daniel Balsam
CTO and co-founder of Goodfire
Goodfire
Episode: The startup decoding AI’s "alien brain"
Hamish McKenzie
Substack co-founder
Substack
Episode: Introducing The Art of the Zag Podcast

Hosts

Shane Snow
Host of The Art of the Zag; Co-host of The Zag; co-author and writer involved in storytelling and media.
Joe Lazer
Host of The Art of the Zag; author and storyteller focused on media, storytelling, and branding.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#180
Canada/Technology
Apple Podcasts
#166
Ireland/Technology

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

The 3 forces behind those $500K business storytelling roles
Q: How will AI change the way we tell stories?
They agree AI changes the tools and formats but emphasizes that the core meaning and human perspective must remain at the center, with AI serving as an amplifier rather than a replacement for human creativity.
The 3 forces behind those $500K business storytelling roles
Q: Why is storytelling the super skill in the AI era?
Shane and Joe discuss storytelling as a meta-skill that unlocks leadership, trust, and collaboration, enabling better adaptation to AI-driven changes and helping to humanize technology-driven work.
The 3 forces behind those $500K business storytelling roles
Q: What is the story that made you want to write this book?
Joe explains that the rapid emergence of AI after his son's birth, plus witnessing prophecies about AI displacing writers, motivated him to investigate how storytelling remains crucial and uniquely human in shaping the future of work.
The startup decoding AI’s "alien brain"
Q: What are practical life-sciences applications of interpretability?
Interpreting models can aid early detection of diseases like Alzheimer's and support drug discovery by revealing novel biomarkers and enabling validation through proxy models.
The startup decoding AI’s "alien brain"
Q: Why start a company focused on interpretability despite industry skepticism?
The founder believed that understanding and shaping AI behavior would reduce the risk of high-stakes errors, and that a private company could accelerate progress beyond what academia or existing firms were delivering.

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Frequently Asked Questions About The Art of the Zag

What is The Art of the Zag about and what kind of topics does it cover?

Two longtime friends and co-hosts explore how to win by zagging when others zig, with a focus on storytelling, trust-building, and leadership in the AI age. Episodes sketch practical angles on making human-centric narratives, interpreting AI systems, and navigating media evolution—ranging from authorial stories behind successful brands to pragmatic discussions on platform models, subscriptions, and responsible AI use. The conversation often weaves in real-world anecdotes, industry trends, and strategic prompts for marketers, founders, and executives to leverage storytelling as a core differentiator in tech-driven markets. A standout throughline is that human storytelling remains a valuable, transferable skill even as AI augments technical w... more

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1. Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out

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The Art of the Zag launched 2 months ago and published 7 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on The Art of the Zag?

Recent guests on The Art of the Zag include:

1. Joe Lazer
2. Daniel Balsam
3. Hamish McKenzie

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