Rephonic
Artwork for Proof Over Precedent
Harvard Law School
Access To Justice Lab
Immigration
Death Penalty
Artificial Intelligence
Expungement
Access To Justice
Kansas
Pro Se Litigants
Common Rule
Divorce
Bankruptcy
Child Welfare
Pretrial Detention
Randomized Controlled Trial
Supreme Court Of the United States
Employment
PACER
Involuntary Commitment
IRB

The Access to Justice Lab at Harvard Law School discusses the work of bringing credible evidence to lawyers, judges, and decision makers, to transform the U.S. justice system into an evidence-based field. We bring you weekly one-on-one interviews with experts in the area of access to justice -- researchers, lawyers, professors, law students, data analysts, research participants, and anyone who has... more

PublishesWeeklyEpisodes77Foundeda year ago
Number of ListenersCategories
GovernmentSociety & Culture

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Artwork for Proof Over Precedent

Latest Episodes

When law students have difficulty navigating the federal court records platform PACER, it’s time to incorporate universal design. That’s the suggested solution in this week’s Proof Over Precedent episode. It’s also a warning for the Case Modernizatio... more

The seven-year-old Open Government Data Act has supported accessible, and useable, data from federal agencies, but it did not extend to the judiciary. This week's Proof Over Precedent episode discusses the massive amounts of data in federal, and par... more

YouTube

It helps to have a lawyer in court, no question. But in immigration court, where the vast majority of individuals are self-representing and not enough immigration lawyers exist to represent them all anyway, is there a point in asylum proceedings wher... more

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No counsel, worse outcomes in immigration proceedings? This week on Proof Over Precedent, Access to Justice Lab Faculty Director and occasional podcast host Jim Greiner interviewed two Vera Institute of Justice researchers, Jacquelyn Pavilon and Neil... more

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Recent Guests

Cindy Nelson
Harvard Law School student with a background in government consulting and user experience design
Harvard Law School
Episode: Episode 73: Does Modernizing PACER Mean Overlooking Pro Se Litigants?
Jacqueline Lin
Harvard Law School student
Harvard Law School
Episode: Episode 73: Does Modernizing PACER Mean Overlooking Pro Se Litigants?
Elizabeth Guo
Harvard Law School student
Harvard Law School
Episode: Episode 72: Building Judiciary Trust Through Open Court Data
Katie Taylor
Legal Director at Neighbors Immigration Clinic
Neighbors Immigration Clinic
Episode: Episode 71: When and How to Study Attorney Influence in Asylum Cases
Belisha Caton-Reyns
Staff Attorney at No More Estranger Foundation
No More Estranger Foundation
Episode: Episode 71: When and How to Study Attorney Influence in Asylum Cases
Renee Dancer
Researcher at the Access to Justice Lab
Harvard Law School
Episode: Episode 71: When and How to Study Attorney Influence in Asylum Cases
Jacquelyn Pavilon
Associate Director of Research at the Vera Institute of Justice's Advancing Universes of Reflections Initiative
Vera Institute of Justice
Episode: Episode 70: Exploring a Lawyer's Impact on Immigration Proceedings
Neil Agrawal
Principal Data Scientist at Vera
Vera Institute of Justice
Episode: Episode 70: Exploring a Lawyer's Impact on Immigration Proceedings
Patricia Gansert
Data Analyst at The Access to Justice Lab
Access to Justice Lab, Harvard Law School
Episode: Episode 69: Study Interrupted—In-Person v. Remote Hearing Modalities

Host

Jim Greiner
Host of the podcast and affiliated with the Access to Justice Lab, Harvard Law School

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#17
Ukraine/Government
Apple Podcasts
#34
Chile/Government
Apple Podcasts
#55
Colombia/Government
Apple Podcasts
#78
Indonesia/Government
Apple Podcasts
#212
Austria/Government
Apple Podcasts
#250
India/Government

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Episode 72: Building Judiciary Trust Through Open Court Data
Q: Do you have any insight on why this bill didn't make it to a full vote?
Nelson speculates that tension between judicial independence and congressional oversight contributed to the Open Courts Act stalling, following the judiciary's request for Congress to defer the legislation and discuss it further.
Episode 72: Building Judiciary Trust Through Open Court Data
Q: What did you find as it pertains to the kinds of court data that should be accessible by the public?
Court data can show case filings, judicial processes, and outcomes. Making it accessible could help people track their cases, researchers identify patterns, and courts improve services and transparency.
Episode 73: Does Modernizing PACER Mean Overlooking Pro Se Litigants?
Q: So if you were in charge of this modernization effort, how would you look to meet pro se litigants' needs?
Nelson recommends a case-progress tracker, plain language, consistent terminology across courts, simpler navigation based on users' natural goals, and features that help first-time PACER users follow their cases.
Episode 73: Does Modernizing PACER Mean Overlooking Pro Se Litigants?
Q: But why do you fear that pro se litigants, their needs won't be reflected or prioritized?
Nelson says court surveys combine responses from lawyers and pro se litigants, making it difficult to identify the latter group's distinct needs. She also notes that the PACER advisory group appears not to include pro se litigants.
Episode 70: Exploring a Lawyer's Impact on Immigration Proceedings
Q: What are the main outcome variables you looked at and how do you define them?
The primary outcomes include grant of relief (a strong form of protection allowing permanent stay), other stays or dismissals, bond outcomes (release on bond), and the number or type of motions and hearings; they also consider stay-in-US versus departure outcomes, with relief being a particularly salient measure.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About Proof Over Precedent

What is Proof Over Precedent about and what kind of topics does it cover?

The show centers on evidence-based approaches to the civil justice system, frequently featuring researchers, lawyers, and policy advocates who examine access to justice, legal aid, expungement, immigration, labor rights, and the role of technology in legal services. Episodes consistently push for data-informed reform, exploring how innovations (from AI-assisted workflows to bundled services) intersect with real-world outcomes for litigants, workers, and marginalized communities. A standout pattern is the collaboration between Harvard's Access to Justice Lab and partner organizations to question conventional practices, test interventions, and illuminate policy implications with rigorous analysis. This mix of academic scholarship, frontline p... more

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1. Advisory Opinions
2. The Daily
3. The Ezra Klein Show
4. Up First from NPR
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Proof Over Precedent launched a year ago and published 77 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Proof Over Precedent?

Recent guests on Proof Over Precedent include:

1. Cindy Nelson
2. Jacqueline Lin
3. Elizabeth Guo
4. Katie Taylor
5. Belisha Caton-Reyns
6. Renee Dancer
7. Jacquelyn Pavilon
8. Neil Agrawal

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