Rephonic
Artwork for Proof Over Precedent
Harvard Law School
Access To Justice Lab
Common Rule
Divorce
Child Welfare
Pretrial Detention
Involuntary Commitment
IRB
Failure To Appear
Civil Forfeiture
Artificial Intelligence
Pro Se Litigants
Unauthorized Practice Of Law
Medicine
Law
Access To Justice
Pennsylvania
Kansas
Arbitration
California

The Access to Justice Lab at Harvard Law School discusses the work of bringing credible evidence to lawyers, judges, and decision makers, to transform the U.S. justice system into an evidence-based field. We bring you weekly one-on-one interviews with experts in the area of access to justice -- researchers, lawyers, professors, law students, data analysts, research participants, and anyone who has... more

PublishesWeeklyEpisodes53Foundeda year ago
Number of ListenersCategories
GovernmentSociety & Culture

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Artwork for Proof Over Precedent

Latest Episodes

State bar associations typically file more UPL complaints than consumers. Given the intended aim of protecting consumers, UPL may actually be serving more as an obstacle and less as a protection for consumers using generative AI in the legal space. T... more

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The low cost and accessibility of AI make it a potential game changer for pro se litigation and the future of affordable legal aid. But with the patchwork of state unauthorized practice of law (UPL) rules and no court resolution on AI's UPL liability... more

YouTube

When the organized bar association faced financial strain during the Depression, it cracked down on low-cost legal service providers via auto clubs like AAA, contributing to today's access-to-justice gap. In this "How did we get here?"-style episode,... more

YouTube

How likely would you be able to answer questions under duress seated in a hard chair in a windowless, flourescent-lit box of a room? What about in a larger space with natural lighting and comfortable seating? In this episode of Proof Over Precedent, ... more

YouTube

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Recent Guests

Ellen Murphy
Professor, Wake Forest Law
Wake Forest University School of Law
Episode: Episode 50: Pro Se Litigants, AI, and the Future of Legal Assistance
Elizabeth Guo
Student in the Access to Justice seminar at HLS
Harvard Law School
Episode: Episode 49: AI and the Future of Legal Aid—Navigating Unauthorized Practice
Sydney Nelson
Classmate of Elizabeth Guo
Harvard Law School
Episode: Episode 49: AI and the Future of Legal Aid—Navigating Unauthorized Practice
Nora Engstrom
Ernest W. McFarland Professor of Law at Stanford Law School; co-director of the Deborah L. Roady Center on the Legal Profession
Stanford Law School; Roady Center
Episode: Episode 48: Legal Evolution from Auto Clubs to Access Barriers
James Stone
Harry A. Biccolo Teaching Fellow and Lecturer at the University of Chicago Law School; 2023 Stanford Law School graduate
University of Chicago Law School
Episode: Episode 48: Legal Evolution from Auto Clubs to Access Barriers
Ashleigh Gervary
2L at Harvard Law School
Harvard Law School
Episode: Episode 46: Upsolve in Depth—When does Legal Explanation Become Illegal?
Joe Lieberman
Guest discussing civil forfeiture research and blog
Harvard Law School
Episode: Episode 45: Proof and Property—Is Civil Forfeiture a Just Practice?
Chief Judge Wilson
Chief Judge of the New York Court of Appeals
New York Court of Appeals
Episode: Episode 44: Chief Judge Wilson's Family Court Vision—Problem Solving the Present Over Punishing the Past
Mia Robertson
1L at Harvard Law School discussing child welfare and incarcerated parents
Harvard Law School
Episode: Episode 43: Navigating Child Custody Challenges From Behind Bars

Host

Jim Greiner
Host of Proof Over Precedent

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#35
Belgium/Government
Apple Podcasts
#54
Indonesia/Government
Apple Podcasts
#82
Chile/Government
Apple Podcasts
#106
Ukraine/Government

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Episode 49: AI and the Future of Legal Aid—Navigating Unauthorized Practice
Q: Okay, so unauthorized practice of law or UPL, can you walk us through what that means?
UPL rules broadly prohibit practicing law without being a licensed attorney, with variations by state; the conversation details differing definitions and the potential for enforcement, including civil penalties or criminal sanctions.
Episode 49: AI and the Future of Legal Aid—Navigating Unauthorized Practice
Q: Awesome. Thanks so much for having me. Can you first share what inspired you to write about AI and UPL?
Elizabeth explains that she observed many news articles about AI in law and wanted to explore how AI could impact pro se litigants, access to justice, and the boundary between legal information and legal advice in UPL contexts.
Episode 50: Pro Se Litigants, AI, and the Future of Legal Assistance
Q: How do we think about balancing AI benefits with the risk of mistakes and hallucinations?
We should favor regulatory and educational approaches that protect consumers without stifling access, using supervised deployment, tailored datasets, and clear disclosures rather than broad prohibition of AI for pro se users.
Episode 50: Pro Se Litigants, AI, and the Future of Legal Assistance
Q: What should be the relationship between pro se litigants and AI, and why?
Pro se litigants should have access to the same kinds of tools as licensed professionals, recognizing their need for accessible, appropriate, and transparent AI tools; however, safeguards and appropriate human support are essential to ensure quality and protect consumers.
Episode 48: Legal Evolution from Auto Clubs to Access Barriers
Q: Let's flesh out how exactly the auto-club lawyers operated. Were they licensed lawyers, or employees of the auto clubs acting as lawyers?
They were both: licensed lawyers who were employees of the auto clubs, offering wraparound legal services along with the other club benefits, making legal help more accessible and affordable for members.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About Proof Over Precedent

What is Proof Over Precedent about and what kind of topics does it cover?

This show focuses on applying credible evidence to real-world justice problems. Across episodes, discussions center on data-driven policy, access to justice, and the practical impact of research on law, policing, and court administration. Guests are often academics, researchers, and practitioners from law schools and policy institutes who dissect complex issues like expungement, pretrial detention, arbitration vs. litigation, and how regulatory or procedural reforms play out in practice. A standout element is the consistent emphasis on methodological rigor, empirical findings, and translating research into actionable reforms, sometimes featuring novel topics like AI in medicine versus law, or the ethics of IRB oversight in criminal justice ... more

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Proof Over Precedent launched a year ago and published 53 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Proof Over Precedent?

Recent guests on Proof Over Precedent include:

1. Ellen Murphy
2. Elizabeth Guo
3. Sydney Nelson
4. Nora Engstrom
5. James Stone
6. Ashleigh Gervary
7. Joe Lieberman
8. Chief Judge Wilson

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