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Artwork for Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership

Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership | Fundraising | Board Development | Communications

Joan Garry & Glennda Testone
Nonprofit Sector
Nonprofit Leadership
Fundraising
Leadership
Nonprofit Leadership Lab
Nonprofits
Social Justice
Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion
Nonprofit Management
Philanthropy
Strategic Planning
Community Engagement
Innovation
Funding Challenges
Nonprofit Fundraising
Self-Care
Capital Campaigns
Nonprofit Budgeting
Hunger
Just Fund

Nonprofits Are Messy is the podcast for nonprofit leaders navigating the real challenges of leadership, fundraising, governance, communications, and organizational growth. Hosted by Joan Garry and Glennda Testone, each episode features candid conversations, practical advice, and honest stories to help you lead with greater confidence through the messiness of nonprofit work.

PublishesTwice monthlyEpisodes268Founded11 years ago
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Non-ProfitBusinessManagement

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Artwork for Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership

Latest Episodes

Major donor fundraising can feel a lot like dating. Rhea Wong has been friend-zoned by donors too, and she says most of us are overlooking our Duckys while we chase donors who were never going to say yes.

Who holds the powerful accountable when a good law isn’t enough? Glennda Testone makes the case for the role of nonprofits with one small watchdog and 170,000 pages of records a city fought for years to keep hidden.

Most of us read conflict on a team as a sign something has gone wrong. Priya Parker thinks we have it backwards, and she has spent twenty years watching what happens to the groups that get this right and the ones that don't.

Some weeks the news takes something out of you and doesn't put it back. Author Sam Horn has spent a year with people who kept going anyway, and she draws a line between three kinds of people that will make you check which one you've been.

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Recent Guests

Rhea Wong
Nonprofit fundraising expert and consultant
Episode: Ep 265: Why Fundraising Feels Lonely, Even When You're Good At It with Rhea Wong
Priya Parker
Facilitator, strategic advisor, and author focused on conflict and group dynamics
Author of The Art of Gathering and The Art of Fighting
Episode: Ep 263: How Nonprofit Teams Build Healthy Conflict with Priya Parker
Sam Horn
Author of The Force for Good Project; international author, communications strategist and keynote speaker
The Force for Good Project
Episode: Ep 262: How to Be a Force for Good When Your Tank Is Empty (with Sam Horn)
Scott M. Curran
Author of Better Good; nonprofit leadership expert
Author, Better Good; Nonprofit Leadership Lab member
Episode: Ep 260: How Can Nonprofits Do Better Good? Hint: Doing More Isn’t the Answer.
Bev Tillary
Expert guest with a pro-union labor background
Former ED / Interim ED at Brooklyn Movement Center
Episode: Ep 259: Nonprofit Unions: What Leaders, Staff, and Boards Need to Know with Bev Tillery
Jim Collins
Author and researcher focused on leadership and life purpose
Author of Good to Great, What to Make of a Life
Episode: Ep 258: Burn on vs. Burnout: A Conversation With Jim Collins About What Matters in Life
Rashad Robinson
Executive Director of Color of Change, longtime nonprofit leader and author
Color of Change
Episode: Ep 257: Presence ≠ Power: What Nonprofit Leaders Need to Know with Rashad Robinson
Mariah Monique
Sponsorship catalyst and corporate partnership strategist
The Sponsorship Catalyst
Episode: Ep 256: What are Corporate Sponsors Really Looking for From Nonprofits? with Mariah Monique
Dr. Kiki Ramsey
Positive Psychologist and CEO of the Positive Psychology Coaching and Diversity Institute
PCAD / Positive Psychology Coaching and Diversity Institute
Episode: Ep 254: Building Belonging When DEI Feels Like a Four-Letter Word with Dr Kiki Ramsey

Host

Joan Garry
Host of the show; nonprofit leadership expert; guides interview flow and explores leadership topics.

Reviews

4.6 out of 5 stars from 392 ratings
  • Excellent podcast!

    This was such a refreshing take on strategic planning and a great reminder that it doesn’t have to become a complicated document that sits untouched. I enjoyed listening to the episode, and the discussion around creating agile plans for smaller nonprofits was especially insightful.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Mary Burruss
    United States6 months ago
  • Used to be fantastic

    Unfortunately, Joan cannot check her ego at the door anymore. She talks over guests, inserts her worldview, and boasts endlessly about her contributions. The guests are amazing. I only wish the interviewer would return to being amazing too.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    DonorAdviceFun
    United States2 years ago
  • I am just exploring the nonprofit sector. The conversations in these podcasts are enlightening and helpful. I think this will be helpful to me in making decisions about whether to move forward.

    Audible
    5
    K. Shea
    United States2 years ago
  • Just learning; valuable information here!

    I am just exploring the nonprofit sector. The conversations in these podcasts are enlightening and helpful. I think this will be helpful to me in making decisions about whether to move forward.

    Audible
    5
    K. Shea
    United States2 years ago
  • Brilliant!

    Joan is a deep thinker and takes a novel and strategic approach to solving problems. Joan's advice and thinking about all things nonprofit is some of the best!

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    libbyv55
    United States3 years ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Some listeners critique pacing and interruptions, but overall content is considered highly informative.
Guest-focused conversations frequently praised for practical insights and actionable takeaways.
Hosts and guests are described as industry experts delivering high-value nonprofit guidance.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Ep 265: Why Fundraising Feels Lonely, Even When You're Good At It with Rhea Wong
Q: Why is burnout happening, and what can we do about it?
Wong says burnout often stems from isolation, survival-mode pressure, and a lack of organizational support. She encourages building community and ensuring boards and executives share responsibility for fundraising.
Ep 265: Why Fundraising Feels Lonely, Even When You're Good At It with Rhea Wong
Q: How do people think of fundraising differently from a pyramid and do this effectively?
Wong recommends focusing on engaged supporters, using a consent-based process, and prequalifying people for capacity, personal connection, engagement, timing, and permission before investing in a fundraising relationship.
Ep 260: How Can Nonprofits Do Better Good? Hint: Doing More Isn’t the Answer.
Q: How did you deal with the bad as you were writing this book and still try to get people to focus on the good?
By cultivating greater awareness and intentionality, and acknowledging that our biology predisposes us to feel good when we see others doing good; this becomes a flywheel that sustains action despite negative headlines.
Ep 260: How Can Nonprofits Do Better Good? Hint: Doing More Isn’t the Answer.
Q: So Scott, could you start by just sharing, why did you write this book right now? How are you defining good? And to the title of the book, how are you defining better good?
The book reframes doing good from a mindset that more is needed to a focus on awareness, intentionality, and acting on the good you already do. Better Good means leveraging the Goldilocks Zone where passion and proficiency overlap, and recognizing that we don't need external changes to start making a difference today.
Ep 258: Burn on vs. Burnout: A Conversation With Jim Collins About What Matters in Life
Q: Can you share what you wish you had included in the book or what you would add with more time?
I'd add more on how people get knocked out of frame by promotions and organizational structures, and how crucial it is to preserve alignment with encodings even as one's role changes.

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Frequently Asked Questions About This Podcast

What is This Podcast about and what kind of topics does it cover?

The show centers on practical leadership for nonprofits, covering leadership development, governance, fundraising, and strategic planning with a pragmatic, experience-driven lens. Across episodes, listeners hear candid discussions about board dynamics, staff management, revenue diversification, DEI evolution, and partnerships with corporations, unions, and donors. Notable qualities include hands-on guidance, real-world examples, and guest expertise from sector leaders, making it a helpful resource for executives, directors, and board members aiming to strengthen their organizations while navigating the complex nonprofit landscape.

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These podcasts share a similar audience with this podcast:

1. A Slight Change of Plans
2. Project Swagger with Robin Arzón
3. Hidden Brain
4. No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp
5. College Matters from The Chronicle

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this podcast launched 11 years ago and published 268 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on this podcast?

Recent guests on this podcast include:

1. Rhea Wong
2. Priya Parker
3. Sam Horn
4. Scott M. Curran
5. Bev Tillary
6. Jim Collins
7. Rashad Robinson
8. Mariah Monique

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