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Artwork for Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership

Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership | Fundraising | Board Development | Communications

Joan Garry & Glennda Testone
Nonprofit Sector
Nonprofit Leadership
Fundraising
Leadership
Nonprofit Leadership Lab
Nonprofits
Social Justice
Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion
Nonprofit Management
Philanthropy
Strategic Planning
Community Engagement
Innovation
Funding Challenges
Nonprofit Fundraising
Self-Care
Capital Campaigns
Nonprofit Budgeting
Hunger
Just Fund

Nonprofits Are Messy is the podcast for nonprofit leaders navigating the real challenges of leadership, fundraising, governance, communications, and organizational growth. Hosted by Joan Garry and Glennda Testone, each episode features candid conversations, practical advice, and honest stories to help you lead with greater confidence through the messiness of nonprofit work.

PublishesTwice monthlyEpisodes262Founded10 years ago
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Non-ProfitBusinessManagement

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Artwork for Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership

Latest Episodes

For many nonprofit leaders, unionization can feel deeply personal. Explore the questions, challenges, and realities of nonprofit unionization, and how leaders, staff, and boards can navigate the process while preserving trust, culture, and their org’... more

What if the goal isn’t simply to avoid burnout, but to learn how to burn on? Jim Collins joins Joan Garry to explore why some leaders stay energized for decades, what it means to stay “in frame,” and how to build a life around what matters most.

Most nonprofits know how to get people to pay attention. Fewer know how to turn that attention into lasting change. In this conversation, Rashad Robinson shares what makes the difference.

Some sponsorship conversations turn into long-term partnerships. Others quietly disappear after the first meeting. What's the difference?

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Recent Guests

Jim Collins
Author and researcher focused on leadership and life purpose
Author of Good to Great, What to Make of a Life
Episode: Ep 258: Burn on vs. Burnout: A Conversation With Jim Collins About What Matters in Life
Rashad Robinson
Executive Director of Color of Change, longtime nonprofit leader and author
Color of Change
Episode: Ep 257: Presence ≠ Power: What Nonprofit Leaders Need to Know with Rashad Robinson
Mariah Monique
Sponsorship Catalyst
The Sponsorship Catalyst
Episode: Ep 255: Managing Across Generations: What Nonprofit Leaders Need to Know with Jason Burlingame
Dr. Kiki Ramsey
Positive Psychologist and CEO of the Positive Psychology Coaching and Diversity Institute
PCAD / Positive Psychology Coaching and Diversity Institute
Episode: Ep 254: Building Belonging When DEI Feels Like a Four-Letter Word with Dr Kiki Ramsey
Julia Gackenbach
nonprofit CRM expert; DonorPerfect contributor
DonorPerfect
Episode: Ep 252: CRM Matchmaking: How to Ensure the Right Fit for Your Nonprofit with Julia Gackenbach
Vu Le
Keynote speaker, blogger, founder of Nonprofit AF, author
Nonprofit AF/The Platypus Principle Book Author
Episode: Ep 251: Reimagining Nonprofits: The Uncomfortable Conversation We Need to Have with Vu Le
Emilia Gonzalez Avalos
Executive Director of Unidos Minnesota
Unidos Minnesota
Episode: Ep 250: The Power of Neighbors: A Leadership Story from Minneapolis with Emilia Gonzalez Avalos
Bethany Maki
Executive Director of Progressive Multiplier Fund and Action Fund; CEO of Multiplier Effect
Progressive Multiplier
Episode: Ep 249: Financial Resilience Isn’t Luck – It’s Strategy with Bethany Maki
Dr. Nastasia Harris
Founder of the Perinatal Health Equity Initiative
Episode: Ep 246: If You Believe Leadership Matters, Prove It!

Hosts

Joan Garry
Host of the show, nonprofit leader and former executive director
Glennda Testone
CEO of the Nonprofit Leadership Lab; frequent host/partner on leadership conversations

Reviews

4.6 out of 5 stars from 390 ratings
  • Excellent podcast!

    This was such a refreshing take on strategic planning and a great reminder that it doesn’t have to become a complicated document that sits untouched. I enjoyed listening to the episode, and the discussion around creating agile plans for smaller nonprofits was especially insightful.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Mary Burruss
    United States3 months ago
  • Used to be fantastic

    Unfortunately, Joan cannot check her ego at the door anymore. She talks over guests, inserts her worldview, and boasts endlessly about her contributions. The guests are amazing. I only wish the interviewer would return to being amazing too.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    DonorAdviceFun
    United Statesa year ago
  • I am just exploring the nonprofit sector. The conversations in these podcasts are enlightening and helpful. I think this will be helpful to me in making decisions about whether to move forward.

    Audible
    5
    K. Shea
    United States2 years ago
  • Just learning; valuable information here!

    I am just exploring the nonprofit sector. The conversations in these podcasts are enlightening and helpful. I think this will be helpful to me in making decisions about whether to move forward.

    Audible
    5
    K. Shea
    United States2 years ago
  • Brilliant!

    Joan is a deep thinker and takes a novel and strategic approach to solving problems. Joan's advice and thinking about all things nonprofit is some of the best!

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    libbyv55
    United States3 years ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Guests and topics are described as top-tier and highly valuable for leaders and boards.
Listeners praise the host and guests for actionable nonprofit leadership insights.
Some reviews note interruptions by the host; pacing can be uneven across episodes.
A few listeners feel early episodes were more focused on teaching nonprofit basics and less on later topics.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Ep 258: Burn on vs. Burnout: A Conversation With Jim Collins About What Matters in Life
Q: Can you share what you wish you had included in the book or what you would add with more time?
I'd add more on how people get knocked out of frame by promotions and organizational structures, and how crucial it is to preserve alignment with encodings even as one's role changes.
Ep 257: Presence ≠ Power: What Nonprofit Leaders Need to Know with Rashad Robinson
Q: What guidance does the author offer for dealing with backlash and sustaining progress?
Expect backlash as part of progress, stay focused on building power, and do not wait for a perfect moment or an external referee; maintain momentum through concrete actions and infrastructure.
Ep 257: Presence ≠ Power: What Nonprofit Leaders Need to Know with Rashad Robinson
Q: How should nonprofit leaders approach the idea of infrastructure in their work?
Infrastructure is the practical backbone that enables strategy to be implemented; without it, even great ideas stall. Leaders must build and fund the roads, networks, and processes that connect plans to action.
Ep 257: Presence ≠ Power: What Nonprofit Leaders Need to Know with Rashad Robinson
Q: What is the difference between presence and power, and why does it matter for nonprofits?
Presence is visibility and awareness that helps raise attention and support, but power is the ability to change rules and push real outcomes; nonprofits need to cultivate power to translate attention into durable change.
Ep 256: What are Corporate Sponsors Really Looking for From Nonprofits? with Mariah Monique
Q: What is the number one thing corporate partners don't understand about nonprofits?
Corporate partners want to see a clear value and alignment; nonprofits must demonstrate how partnering helps the brand meet its goals, not just explain their own needs.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About This Podcast

What is This Podcast about and what kind of topics does it cover?

The show consistently centers on nonprofit leadership, governance, and sustainable fundraising, often pairing practical frameworks with real-world anecdotes from leaders, boards, and organizers. Episodes frequently address DEI, strategic planning, volunteer engagement, board-ED relationships, and resilience in turbulent funding environments, offering ready-to-implement tips for executives, directors, and philanthropists. A notable strength is bringing diverse voices from the sector—CRMs, partnerships with Girl Scouts, grassroots organizing, and civic engagement—into focused conversations that blend tactical advice with big-picture governance. This mix makes it valuable for listeners seeking actionable leadership development, improved board ... more

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1. We Can Do Hard Things
2. 10% Happier with Dan Harris
3. The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant
4. All There Is with Anderson Cooper
5. Hidden Brain

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this podcast launched 10 years ago and published 262 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on this podcast?

Recent guests on this podcast include:

1. Jim Collins
2. Rashad Robinson
3. Mariah Monique
4. Dr. Kiki Ramsey
5. Julia Gackenbach
6. Vu Le
7. Emilia Gonzalez Avalos
8. Bethany Maki

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