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Artwork for Just Say No To The DSO

Just Say No To The DSO

The Pod Mill
Dental Service Organizations
Dentistry
Dental Support Organizations
Private Equity
Practice Ownership
Practice Valuation
EBITDA
Practice Transitions
Financial Planning
Patient Care
Practice Management
Private Practice
Financial Analysis
Dental Support Organization
Wealth Transfer In Dentistry
Private Practice Ownership
Orthodontics
Dental Practices
DSO
Ownership

Dentistry is experiencing an attack by well-funded corporations who want to own the work of each dentist’s hands. While the promises of wealth and ease DSO’s present to owner-dentists appear enticing, experience shows the reality is very different. Just Say No to the DSO is a deep dive podcast for dentists in all stages of their career. It is especially for those who are looking at whether or not ... more

PublishesTwice monthlyEpisodes59Founded3 years ago
Number of ListenersCategories
Health & FitnessMedicineBusinessManagement

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Artwork for Just Say No To The DSO

Latest Episodes

This episode exposes the realities behind DSO equity and why selling to a DSO often results in less financial benefit than expected. There is a magic trick all DSOs are trying to pull...the magically disappearing equity. Nate and Bob dissect the myth... more

Starting a dental practice can be daunting, but with the right insights and support, it can also be incredibly rewarding. Mike and Christy Crockett, who have navigated the complex world of dentistry together, share their journey—from Mike’s schooling... more

Starting a dental practice can be daunting, but with the right insights and support, it can also be incredibly rewarding. Mike and Christy Crockett, who have navigated the complex world of dentistry together, share their journey—from Mike’s schooling... more

This episode exposes the hidden truths behind DSO deals in dentistry, revealing how dentists are often financially fleeced through complex deal structures. Bob and Nate bring you their expert analysis to break down the mechanics of these deals, showi... more

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Recent Guests

Mike Crockett
Owner/doctor who considered selling to a DSO
Independent dentist
Episode: Sometimes It Pays To Listen To Your Better Half with Dr Mike Crockett Part 2
Christy Crockett
Practice partner and spouse who questioned the decision
Independent practice partner
Episode: Sometimes It Pays To Listen To Your Better Half with Dr Mike Crockett Part 2
Dr. Travis Nixon
Practicing dentist in North Carolina with experience in protecting private practice and mentoring students
Private practice in McAddenville, North Carolina
Episode: A Smooth Voice From the South With Dr Travis Nixon
Dr. Michael W. Davis
Dentist, expert witness, former private practice owner in Santa Fe, NM
Self/Private practice
Episode: Sage Wisdom is Hard to Come By These Days with Dr. Michael W. Davis
Nate Williams
CPA, CFP and founder of Practice Financial Group (wealth management for dental practice owners)
Practice Financial Group
Episode: Away Game with the Orthodontic Pearls Podcast and Nate Williams
Brad Shavitol
Guest co-host; former MB2 partner in private practice
MB2 Dental
Episode: Away Game with the Orthodontic Pearls Podcast and Nate Williams
Dr. Joe Feller
Orthodontist and founder involved in the POP Orthodontic Practices group
Feller Orthodontics (Bountiful, Utah)
Episode: Right Up to the Edge and Back with Dr. Joe Feller
Jonathan Martin
CPA and dental consultant with 20 years of experience in the dental industry.
McGill Lyon
Episode: When Your Reputation Precedes You with Jonathan Martin
Dr. Blake Maxfield
Sole owner of Maxfield Orthodontics, located in Cottonwood Heights and Taylorsville, Utah. He is focused on helping private práctica owners maintain their practices against DSO pressures.
Maxfield Orthodontics
Episode: Right Up to the Edge and Back with Dr. Blake Maxfield

Hosts

Nate Williams
CPA, CFP and founder providing financial perspectives on dental practice transactions and DSOs.
Bob Spiel
Host with Nate Williams discussing DSOs, private practice ownership, and practice transitions.

Reviews

4.4 out of 5 stars from 91 ratings
  • Concerned DDS

    This firm appears to focus primarily on serving small, single-location dental practices. Based on our experience and direct communication with Ryan Millar, CFP, we were informed that their services are not designed to support dentist-owned groups with multiple owners or multiple locations.

    At a time when DSOs and private equity firms are increasingly acquiring independent dental practices, it’s unfortunate to see a firm decline to support 100% dentist-owned groups who are working to maintain co... more

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    Concerned DDS
    United States8 months ago
  • Well Done

    This is a podcast by dental cpa’s/advisors who care about the profession. This is information you just won’t find everywhere. Certainly Dentists who own their practice and are nearing the back 9 of their career need to listen to this.

    My only critique is the podcasters need to share a little more about them on the podcast website. I may need them !

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Middle Age Dentist
    United Statesa year ago
  • Very informative

    As a practicing dentist of over 33yrs- I am looking into all options of how to potentially finish my career.Non stop DSO mailings have peaked my interest as I begin to weigh my options on how to sell my practice. This podcast has opened my eyes to many of the pitfalls and deceiving practices of the DSO’s. A well done program with useful insights consistently.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Kappy340
    United Statesa year ago
  • 5 Stars

    Love the show! Private practice dentistry is the best way!

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    JustinPerio
    United Statesa year ago
  • Waste of time

    I spent a day traveling listening to season 1 and 2. Very one sided, with zero openness to consider the other side. I have seen both private practice and partnership with a DSO work out just fine. I have colleagues in both models that are beyond happy. Hard to take away anything of value here! For the record I am private practice.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    W . Abe
    United Statesa year ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Balanced, opinionated discussions that challenge conventional selling narratives.
Helpful guest perspectives for dentists exploring independent ownership and transition options.
Clear, data-driven critique of DSOs with practical takeaways for practice owners.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

A Smooth Voice From the South With Dr Travis Nixon
Q: What strategies have you used to counter these moves at the state level?
Engaging with the state dental society, educating legislators, mobilizing a broad network of practitioners, and sharing evidence-based concerns to prevent consolidation that could erode private practice ownership.
A Smooth Voice From the South With Dr Travis Nixon
Q: What do you think is happening in dentistry right now with DSOs?
DSOs are expanding influence, challenging state boards, and reshaping ownership models, which pressures dentists to consider selling; however, there's a strong pushback from independent practitioners and organized dentistry to protect self-regulation and patient-first care.
Away Game with the Orthodontic Pearls Podcast and Nate Williams
Q: Why do DSOs buy practices and are these reasons financially sound?
DSOs are attractive for scale, shared resources, and exit routing for doctors, but the panel argues the financial math often favors private sales; they emphasize equity structures can be devalued, non-marketable stock, and upfront cash misalignment, making private sales typically more favorable financially.
When Your Reputation Precedes You with Jonathan Martin
Q: What advice would you give to the 40-year-old doctor considering a DSO?
Plan and plan in advance with a financial advisor to understand financial goals and options.
A Conversation With The Dental Banker Bob Affleck
Q: What is your experience working with doctors who have sold or considered selling to DSOs?
Many doctors are enticed by high offers but do not realize the long-term commitments and impacts on practice autonomy.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

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Frequently Asked Questions About Just Say No To The DSO

What is Just Say No To The DSO about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A rigorous, debate-driven show focused on the economics and ownership dynamics of dentistry, particularly around selling practices to DSOs. Episodes frequently dissect deal terms, equity promises, due diligence, and long-term outcomes, often from a skeptical, practitioner-first perspective. A recurring theme is maintaining private practice ownership and autonomy, with guests ranging from CPAs and bankers to practicing dentists sharing real-world experiences. The show also highlights practical paths for growth and transition outside DSOs, such as partnerships or vendor negotiations through initiatives like Pop Ortho. Overall, it's likely to appeal to dentists considering exits, practice growth, or concerns about consolidation, and to profess... more

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Which podcasts are similar to Just Say No To The DSO?

These podcasts share a similar audience with Just Say No To The DSO:

1. White Coat Investor Podcast
2. Money Meets Medicine
3. The Passive Income MD Podcast
4. The Peter Attia Drive
5. The Daily Stoic

How many episodes of Just Say No To The DSO are there?

Just Say No To The DSO launched 3 years ago and published 59 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Just Say No To The DSO?

Recent guests on Just Say No To The DSO include:

1. Mike Crockett
2. Christy Crockett
3. Dr. Travis Nixon
4. Dr. Michael W. Davis
5. Nate Williams
6. Brad Shavitol
7. Dr. Joe Feller
8. Jonathan Martin

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