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This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

Podmasters
Russia
Ukraine
United States
Donald Trump
NATO
Iran
China
European Union
Israel
Middle East
Climate Change
Syria
Trump Administration
Hezbollah
Vladimir Putin
Gaza
Hamas
Ukraine War
Artificial Intelligence
Taiwan

Exploring threats to global stability from Ukraine to China to the Middle East with host Gavin Esler – former BBC News presenter, Washington correspondent and host of Newsnight – plus Ukraine-based war reporter Oz Katerji and independent conflict analyst Emma Beals. This Is Not A Drill dives deep into the dangers, corruption, conflicts, disinformation, rivalries and ruthless realpolitik that are m... more

PublishesTwice weeklyEpisodes252Founded5 years ago
Number of ListenersCategories
NewsSociety & CulturePolitics

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Artwork for This Is Not A Drill

Latest Episodes

Beyond the pomp and pageantry of Vladimir Putin’s Beijing summit with Xi Jinping, what do Russia and China need from each other? And how strong is their relationship? Plus, coming hot on the heels of Donald Trump’s own Beijing visit, what does it mea... more

In a new book, Surviving Chaos: Geopolitics When the Rules Fail, co-founder and director of the European Council on Foreign Relations Mark Leonard argues that we have entered an age of ‘un-order’ – when the rules and norms of the international order ... more

As drones and missiles darken the skies above conflicts in Ukraine and the Middle East, is a transformation in modern warfare leading to a new arms race? And as technology and tactics evolve, which weapons and defence systems are being bought, and wh... more

Putin thought that Ukraine would quickly fold under a massively superior Russian onslaught. Instead, the War has seen Ukraine reinventing itself as a world expert in drone warfare, exploiting cheap replaceable tech and digital networks to strike deep... more

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Recent Guests

Mark Leonard
Director of the European Council on Foreign Relations
European Council on Foreign Relations
Episode: Order vs. Chaos – Who is thriving in a world of crisis?
Pieter Wezeman
Senior researcher in the SIPRI Arms Transfer Programme
SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute)
Episode: All guns blazing – How the arms trade went into overdrive
David Kirichenko
Journalist and associate research fellow at the Henry Jackson Society
Henry Jackson Society
Episode: Drone masters – How Ukraine reinvented modern warfare
Cassidy Nelson
Director of Biosecurity Policy at the Centre for Long-Term Resilience
Centre for Long-Term Resilience
Episode: Poison arsenal – The deadly return of bioweapons
Shaun Walker
Guardian journalist who has reported on the Russian threat
The Guardian
Episode: Inside Russia’s web of terror – How Kremlin proxies wreak havoc across Europe
Mahal Tusi
Senior Foreign Affairs Reporter at Politico
Politico
Episode: America against the World Part 4 – The New Normal?
Ce9lia Belin
Senior Policy Fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations
European Council on Foreign Relations
Episode: America against the World Part 4 – The New Normal?
Richard Haass
President of the Council on Foreign Relations (former director of policy planning at the State Department)
Council on Foreign Relations
Episode: America against the World Part 4 – The New Normal?
Lesley Vingimurri
President and Chief Executive Officer of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs
Chicago Council on Global Affairs
Episode: America against the World Part 4 – The New Normal?

Host

Gavin Esler
Former BBC News presenter and host of Newsnight; main host with strategic interview style.

Reviews

4.8 out of 5 stars from 2.8k ratings
  • Nice podcast - horrible music

    This podcast’s introductory music is just unbearable.

    Apple Podcasts
    4
    Jay remi
    France6 months ago
  • Appetite for corruption episode

    Brilliant episode from a highly respected author who can also explain the highly complex nature of money and corruption to a level that this layman finds easy to access. Also thanks to Gavin for his calm and measured analysis.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    agah1971
    United Kingdoma year ago
  • Advertisements everywhere

    Ads every few minutes in the middle of content not just at the beginning and end.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    IMO_2000
    Australiaa year ago
  • Blatantly Biased

    Iran escaping blame though it’s been attacking Israel through proxies… how can u not apply the same logic to for Israel invading Palestine for decades … just another sold out show

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    alexis7778
    United Kingdoma year ago
  • Superb

    Really learn a lot from this podcast. Analysis of complex issues presented in an accessible way.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    AW PCloud
    United Kingdoma year ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Guests often bring on-the-ground perspectives that enrich understanding.
Consistently strong interviewing from the host.
Insightful deep-dives into complex geopolitics.
High-caliber guests and expert analysis on global issues.
Ads and sponsorships noted by listeners; some find them intrusive.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#136
United Kingdom/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#148
Ukraine/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#165
Brazil/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#176
Belgium/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#184
Hong Kong/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#187
Japan/News/Politics

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

All guns blazing – How the arms trade went into overdrive
Q: Given the conflict in Iran and also that in Ukraine, are you seeing a change in the market?
Yes, there is a trend toward larger orders for long-range munitions and strategic air capabilities, alongside persistent demand for drones and other platforms. Ukraine's needs have accelerated contracts with European partners for combat aircraft and missiles, while Ukraine itself may become a supplier of certain drone technologies, signaling shifts across both consumption and production in the global market.
All guns blazing – How the arms trade went into overdrive
Q: Can you talk us through what evidence there may be that we are seeing a new arms race? Is it possible to measure it?
The clearest signal is that total military spending has risen, especially in Europe, with the US stabilizing but then increasing sharply, and China continuing a long-term rise; this suggests a broader, multi-domain expansion rather than isolated pockets of growth. Drones, long-range missiles, and defense systems are being funded across the board, indicating a comprehensive modernization that resembles an arms race.
Drone masters – How Ukraine reinvented modern warfare
Q: How has Ukraine managed to scale production and maintain operations given Western aid constraints?
Despite aid fluctuations and restrictions, Ukraine ramped up domestic defense manufacturing, creating an ecosystem where hundreds of drone companies prototype and deploy solutions rapidly, reinforced by international collaboration with European partners and the strategic use of affordable, scalable interceptor and sensor technologies.
Drone masters – How Ukraine reinvented modern warfare
Q: What developments have happened in the last year or two that have allowed Ukraine to gain this advantage, especially at the start of the war?
Ukraine shifted from relying on external aid to building a robust, homegrown drone ecosystem, leveraging experiences from early losses and the influx of Russian drones. They combined cheap FPV platforms, long-range drones, and smart targeting with AI-enabled capabilities, accelerating production and deployment to pressure the front and beyond, including deeper strikes and logistic targeting.
Does Putin really think he can still win in Ukraine?
Q: What is the American role currently, and is Washington still driving the strategy, or is Europe taking the lead?
The U.S. remains influential but there are signs of a slower, more contested dynamic, with Europe increasingly recognizing its own defense needs and seeking a more durable, independent capacity to deter Russia.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About This Is Not A Drill

What is This Is Not A Drill about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A high-signal geopolitics and global-security show that probes Ukraine, the Middle East, China, and US foreign policy through expert interviews, on-the-ground reporting, and in-depth analysis. Episodes regularly dissect drones and AI in modern warfare, biothreats and governance gaps, state-backed proxy campaigns in Europe, and shifts in Western alliances. Noteworthy is a consistent mix of frontline reporting, policy critique, and strategic context from journalists, former policymakers, and senior researchers, making complex international dynamics accessible for decision-makers and informed listeners alike.

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1. The Bunker – News without the nonsense
2. Oh God, What Now?
3. Behind The Lines with Arthur Snell
4. American Friction
5. Quiet Riot

How many episodes of This Is Not A Drill are there?

This Is Not A Drill launched 5 years ago and published 252 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on This Is Not A Drill?

Recent guests on This Is Not A Drill include:

1. Mark Leonard
2. Pieter Wezeman
3. David Kirichenko
4. Cassidy Nelson
5. Shaun Walker
6. Mahal Tusi
7. Ce9lia Belin
8. Richard Haass

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