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This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

Podmasters
Russia
Ukraine
United States
Donald Trump
NATO
Iran
China
Israel
European Union
Middle East
Climate Change
Syria
Vladimir Putin
Hezbollah
Trump Administration
Gaza
Hamas
Taiwan
Ukraine War
Artificial Intelligence

Exploring threats to global stability from Ukraine to China to the Middle East with host Gavin Esler – former BBC News presenter, Washington correspondent and host of Newsnight – plus Ukraine-based war reporter Oz Katerji and independent conflict analyst Emma Beals. This Is Not A Drill dives deep into the dangers, corruption, conflicts, disinformation, rivalries and ruthless realpolitik that are m... more

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Artwork for This Is Not A Drill

Latest Episodes

Ukrainian drone swarms have hit targets in major Russian cities, while disrupting its military assets and vital oil supplies. Could this be a turning point in the war more than four years after Russia’s full-scale invasion began?

Gavin Esler is join... more

News of the framework for a peace deal between Iran and the United States - if it holds - might be the beginning of the end of a conflict that has unsettled not just the Middle East and the world economy but also Washington’s relationships with its a... more

Germany is rearming as the Russian threat looms over Europe and much of the continent’s security rests on its success. Backed by an emergency ‘Zeitenwende’ fund and an ever-expanding defence budget, Germany is undertaking a profound military transfor... more

Beyond the pomp and pageantry of Vladimir Putin’s Beijing summit with Xi Jinping, what do Russia and China need from each other? And how strong is their relationship? Plus, coming hot on the heels of Donald Trump’s own Beijing visit, what does it mea... more

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Recent Guests

John Lough
Senior Research Fellow at the New Eurasian Strategies Centre and Associate Fellow in the Russia and Eurasia Programme at Chatham House
Chatham House, New Eurasian Strategies Centre
Episode: Ukraine Strikes – Is Russia’s war machine faltering?
Steven Cook
Senior Fellow for Middle East and African Studies, Council on Foreign Relations
Council on Foreign Relations
Episode: Trump’s Iran deal — Does it reveal a US divide with Israel?
Jörg Lau
Foreign Affairs Reporter at Die Zeit
Die Zeit
Episode: Germany braces for war – Can rearmament secure Europe?
Joseph Webster
Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council and Editor of the China Russia Report Newsletter
Atlantic Council, China Russia Report (Substack)
Episode: Xi and Putin – What do they really want from each other?
Pieter Wezeman
Senior researcher in the SIPRI Arms Transfer Programme
SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute)
Episode: All guns blazing – How the arms trade went into overdrive
David Kirichenko
Journalist and associate research fellow at the Henry Jackson Society
Henry Jackson Society
Episode: Drone masters – How Ukraine reinvented modern warfare
Cassidy Nelson
Director of Biosecurity Policy at the Centre for Long-Term Resilience
Centre for Long-Term Resilience
Episode: Poison arsenal – The deadly return of bioweapons
Shaun Walker
Guardian journalist who has reported on the Russian threat
The Guardian
Episode: Inside Russia’s web of terror – How Kremlin proxies wreak havoc across Europe
Mahal Tusi
Senior Foreign Affairs Reporter at Politico
Politico
Episode: America against the World Part 4 – The New Normal?

Host

Gavin Esler
Former BBC News presenter and host of Newsnight; main host with strategic interview style.

Reviews

4.8 out of 5 stars from 2.8k ratings
  • Nice podcast - horrible music

    This podcast’s introductory music is just unbearable.

    Apple Podcasts
    4
    Jay remi
    France7 months ago
  • Appetite for corruption episode

    Brilliant episode from a highly respected author who can also explain the highly complex nature of money and corruption to a level that this layman finds easy to access. Also thanks to Gavin for his calm and measured analysis.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    agah1971
    United Kingdoma year ago
  • Advertisements everywhere

    Ads every few minutes in the middle of content not just at the beginning and end.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    IMO_2000
    Australiaa year ago
  • Blatantly Biased

    Iran escaping blame though it’s been attacking Israel through proxies… how can u not apply the same logic to for Israel invading Palestine for decades … just another sold out show

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    alexis7778
    United Kingdoma year ago
  • Superb

    Really learn a lot from this podcast. Analysis of complex issues presented in an accessible way.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    AW PCloud
    United Kingdoma year ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Guests often bring on-the-ground perspectives that enrich understanding.
Consistently strong interviewing from the host.
Insightful deep-dives into complex geopolitics.
High-caliber guests and expert analysis on global issues.
Ads and sponsorships noted by listeners; some find them intrusive.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#102
United Kingdom/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#195
United Kingdom/News
Apple Podcasts
#234
Australia/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#127
Poland/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#144
Indonesia/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#148
New Zealand/News/Politics

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Xi and Putin – What do they really want from each other?
Q: Do Xi and Putin view countering the United States as their primary objective or do they seek a broader multipolar order?
Both leaders appear opposed to the US-led order in various ways, with Russia being more revisionist and China more institutionally minded, and they may pursue a multipolar world rather than pure confrontation, though uncertainty remains.
All guns blazing – How the arms trade went into overdrive
Q: Given the conflict in Iran and also that in Ukraine, are you seeing a change in the market?
Yes, there is a trend toward larger orders for long-range munitions and strategic air capabilities, alongside persistent demand for drones and other platforms. Ukraine's needs have accelerated contracts with European partners for combat aircraft and missiles, while Ukraine itself may become a supplier of certain drone technologies, signaling shifts across both consumption and production in the global market.
All guns blazing – How the arms trade went into overdrive
Q: Can you talk us through what evidence there may be that we are seeing a new arms race? Is it possible to measure it?
The clearest signal is that total military spending has risen, especially in Europe, with the US stabilizing but then increasing sharply, and China continuing a long-term rise; this suggests a broader, multi-domain expansion rather than isolated pockets of growth. Drones, long-range missiles, and defense systems are being funded across the board, indicating a comprehensive modernization that resembles an arms race.
Drone masters – How Ukraine reinvented modern warfare
Q: How has Ukraine managed to scale production and maintain operations given Western aid constraints?
Despite aid fluctuations and restrictions, Ukraine ramped up domestic defense manufacturing, creating an ecosystem where hundreds of drone companies prototype and deploy solutions rapidly, reinforced by international collaboration with European partners and the strategic use of affordable, scalable interceptor and sensor technologies.
Drone masters – How Ukraine reinvented modern warfare
Q: What developments have happened in the last year or two that have allowed Ukraine to gain this advantage, especially at the start of the war?
Ukraine shifted from relying on external aid to building a robust, homegrown drone ecosystem, leveraging experiences from early losses and the influx of Russian drones. They combined cheap FPV platforms, long-range drones, and smart targeting with AI-enabled capabilities, accelerating production and deployment to pressure the front and beyond, including deeper strikes and logistic targeting.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

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Frequently Asked Questions About This Is Not A Drill

What is This Is Not A Drill about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A high-signal geopolitics and global-security show that probes Ukraine, the Middle East, China, and US foreign policy through expert interviews, on-the-ground reporting, and in-depth analysis. Episodes regularly dissect drones and AI in modern warfare, biothreats and governance gaps, state-backed proxy campaigns in Europe, and shifts in Western alliances. Noteworthy is a consistent mix of frontline reporting, policy critique, and strategic context from journalists, former policymakers, and senior researchers, making complex international dynamics accessible for decision-makers and informed listeners alike.

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1. The Bunker – News without the nonsense
2. Oh God, What Now?
3. Behind The Lines with Arthur Snell
4. American Friction
5. Quiet Riot

How many episodes of This Is Not A Drill are there?

This Is Not A Drill launched 5 years ago and published 255 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on This Is Not A Drill?

Recent guests on This Is Not A Drill include:

1. John Lough
2. Steven Cook
3. Jörg Lau
4. Joseph Webster
5. Pieter Wezeman
6. David Kirichenko
7. Cassidy Nelson
8. Shaun Walker

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