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This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

Podmasters
Russia
Ukraine
United States
NATO
Donald Trump
Iran
China
Israel
European Union
Middle East
Climate Change
Syria
Vladimir Putin
Trump Administration
Hezbollah
Gaza
Hamas
Taiwan
Ukraine War
Artificial Intelligence

Exploring threats to global stability from Ukraine to China to the Middle East with host Gavin Esler – former BBC News presenter, Washington correspondent and host of Newsnight – plus Ukraine-based war reporter Oz Katerji and independent conflict analyst Emma Beals. This Is Not A Drill dives deep into the dangers, corruption, conflicts, disinformation, rivalries and ruthless realpolitik that are m... more

PublishesWeeklyEpisodes258Founded5 years ago
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Artwork for This Is Not A Drill

Latest Episodes

European security is in a state of crisis that would have been hard to imagine when Emmanuel Macron took office as French President in 2017. What happens when a President whose term has been so dominated by the threat of Russia, the fate of NATO and ... more

As member states gathered for the NATO conference in Ankara this week, leaders faced a series of questions over the future of the security alliance.

As President Trump flew into Turkey criticising allies over spending commitments and their support i... more

The United States’ war with Iran is a reminder that it’s easier to start a war than to end it.

Many other lessons from the conflict are also being analysed right now, from how relatively low-cost weapons change the economics of war, to how even a fa... more

Ukrainian drone swarms have hit targets in major Russian cities, while disrupting its military assets and vital oil supplies. Could this be a turning point in the war more than four years after Russia’s full-scale invasion began?

Gavin Esler is join... more

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Recent Guests

Ed Arnold
Senior Associate Fellow in International Security
Royal United Services Institute (RUSI)
Episode: Inside the NATO conference – A breakdown from Ankara
Neda Bolourchi
Middle East historian and national security, law and policy advisor
Modern War Institute
Episode: Expensive Lessons – What America vs Iran taught us about modern warfare
John Lough
Senior Research Fellow at the New Eurasian Strategies Centre and Associate Fellow in the Russia and Eurasia Programme at Chatham House
Chatham House, New Eurasian Strategies Centre
Episode: Ukraine Strikes – Is Russia’s war machine faltering?
Steven Cook
Senior Fellow for Middle East and African Studies, Council on Foreign Relations
Council on Foreign Relations
Episode: Trump’s Iran deal — Does it reveal a US divide with Israel?
Jörg Lau
Foreign Affairs Reporter at Die Zeit
Die Zeit
Episode: Germany braces for war – Can rearmament secure Europe?
Joseph Webster
Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council and Editor of the China Russia Report Newsletter
Atlantic Council, China Russia Report (Substack)
Episode: Xi and Putin – What do they really want from each other?
Pieter Wezeman
Senior researcher in the SIPRI Arms Transfer Programme
SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute)
Episode: All guns blazing – How the arms trade went into overdrive
David Kirichenko
Journalist and associate research fellow at the Henry Jackson Society
Henry Jackson Society
Episode: Drone masters – How Ukraine reinvented modern warfare
Cassidy Nelson
Director of Biosecurity Policy at the Centre for Long-Term Resilience
Centre for Long-Term Resilience
Episode: Poison arsenal – The deadly return of bioweapons

Host

Gavin Esler
Former BBC News presenter and host of Newsnight; main host with strategic interview style.

Reviews

4.8 out of 5 stars from 2.8k ratings
  • Nice podcast - horrible music

    This podcast’s introductory music is just unbearable.

    Apple Podcasts
    4
    Jay remi
    France7 months ago
  • Appetite for corruption episode

    Brilliant episode from a highly respected author who can also explain the highly complex nature of money and corruption to a level that this layman finds easy to access. Also thanks to Gavin for his calm and measured analysis.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    agah1971
    United Kingdoma year ago
  • Advertisements everywhere

    Ads every few minutes in the middle of content not just at the beginning and end.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    IMO_2000
    Australiaa year ago
  • Blatantly Biased

    Iran escaping blame though it’s been attacking Israel through proxies… how can u not apply the same logic to for Israel invading Palestine for decades … just another sold out show

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    alexis7778
    United Kingdoma year ago
  • Superb

    Really learn a lot from this podcast. Analysis of complex issues presented in an accessible way.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    AW PCloud
    United Kingdoma year ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Guests often bring on-the-ground perspectives that enrich understanding.
Consistently strong interviewing from the host.
Insightful deep-dives into complex geopolitics.
High-caliber guests and expert analysis on global issues.
Ads and sponsorships noted by listeners; some find them intrusive.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#100
United Kingdom/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#245
United Kingdom/News
Apple Podcasts
#225
Australia/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#78
Chile/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#142
Sweden/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#148
Indonesia/News/Politics

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Expensive Lessons – What America vs Iran taught us about modern warfare
Q: Why is a ceasefire not a full resolution in this context?
Because strategic competition persists across multiple domains—diplomacy, sanctions, energy, technologies, proxy networks—so a ceasefire only pauses active fighting but leaves underlying dynamics unresolved.
Expensive Lessons – What America vs Iran taught us about modern warfare
Q: What role do fertilizer and other secondary resources play in this new dynamic?
Fertilizer and other midstream resources illustrate how disruption in one region can cascade into global supply chains, affecting food production and broader economic stability beyond oil and gas alone.
Expensive Lessons – What America vs Iran taught us about modern warfare
Q: Can you explain why the battlefield has expanded beyond traditional fronts?
The expanded battlefield reflects how modern conflicts touch civilian infrastructure and private sectors—shipping, energy, insurance, cloud services, and finance—meaning military outcomes depend as much on these systems as on battlefield victories.
Xi and Putin – What do they really want from each other?
Q: Do Xi and Putin view countering the United States as their primary objective or do they seek a broader multipolar order?
Both leaders appear opposed to the US-led order in various ways, with Russia being more revisionist and China more institutionally minded, and they may pursue a multipolar world rather than pure confrontation, though uncertainty remains.
All guns blazing – How the arms trade went into overdrive
Q: Given the conflict in Iran and also that in Ukraine, are you seeing a change in the market?
Yes, there is a trend toward larger orders for long-range munitions and strategic air capabilities, alongside persistent demand for drones and other platforms. Ukraine's needs have accelerated contracts with European partners for combat aircraft and missiles, while Ukraine itself may become a supplier of certain drone technologies, signaling shifts across both consumption and production in the global market.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About This Is Not A Drill

What is This Is Not A Drill about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A high-signal geopolitics and global-security show that probes Ukraine, the Middle East, China, and US foreign policy through expert interviews, on-the-ground reporting, and in-depth analysis. Episodes regularly dissect drones and AI in modern warfare, biothreats and governance gaps, state-backed proxy campaigns in Europe, and shifts in Western alliances. Noteworthy is a consistent mix of frontline reporting, policy critique, and strategic context from journalists, former policymakers, and senior researchers, making complex international dynamics accessible for decision-makers and informed listeners alike.

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1. The Bunker – News without the nonsense
2. Behind The Lines with Arthur Snell
3. Oh God, What Now?
4. American Friction
5. Origin Story

How many episodes of This Is Not A Drill are there?

This Is Not A Drill launched 5 years ago and published 258 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on This Is Not A Drill?

Recent guests on This Is Not A Drill include:

1. Ed Arnold
2. Neda Bolourchi
3. John Lough
4. Steven Cook
5. Jörg Lau
6. Joseph Webster
7. Pieter Wezeman
8. David Kirichenko

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