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Artwork for Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie

Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11)

Patrick McKenzie
Banking
Cryptocurrency
Financial Technology
Real Estate
Fraud
Deposit Insurance
Stablecoins
Large Language Models
Artificial Intelligence
Credit Card Rewards
Anti-Money Laundering
Financial Systems
Banking Crisis
Debanking
Real Estate Investing
Know Your Customer
Property Taxation
Appraisal Districts
Tether
Interchange Fees

We live in a world where our civilization and daily lives depend upon institutions, infrastructure, and technological substrates that are _complicated_ but not _unknowable_. Join Patrick McKenzie (patio11) as he discusses how decisions, technology, culture, and incentives shape our finance, technology, government, and more, with the people who built (and build) those Complex Systems.

PublishesWeeklyEpisodes108Founded2 years ago
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InvestingBusiness

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Artwork for Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie

Latest Episodes

Patrick McKenzie (patio11) reads his 2022 Bits about Money essay "Finality does not exist in payments." It argues that how final a payment is depends on the rails, the parties, and the governing law, not on the payment method alone. He explains why t... more

Patrick McKenzie (patio11) reads his Bits about Money essay on how credit cards make money. The prompt was a listener who wondered how a card can include free travel insurance for someone who never carries a balance. He covers the four ways a card ea... more

Patrick McKenzie (patio11) got stranded overnight after a backhoe severed a single fiber optic cable, knocking out air traffic control across much of the eastern US. His airline declined to pay for the hotel. In this episode, he walks through who act... more

Patrick McKenzie (patio11) reads his Bits About Money essay "Financial systems take a holiday" (originally published February 2024), prompted by a conversation with a prior guest about how even exchanging calendars between financial institutions is h... more

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Recent Guests

Max Spero
CEO of Pangram, AI detection company
Pangram
Episode: How AI detection actually works, with Pangram’s Max Spero
Alex Elliott
A Twitter buddy with extensive experience in SRE/DevOps and financial technology across fintech startups and large investment banks
Episode: Two banks can't agree on fourth-grade math | Alex Elliott
Manish Arth
Senior software engineer; formerly VaccinateCA
Self/Industry
Episode: LLMs and the economics of Evil, Inc., with Manish Goregaokar
Misha Gurevich
CEO of Aerolamp
Aerolamp
Episode: The economics of putting germicidal light in every room, with Misha Gurevich and Vivian Belenky of Aerolamp
Vivian Belenky
Chief Scientist of Aerolamp and researcher at Columbia University
Aerolamp / Columbia University
Episode: The economics of putting germicidal light in every room, with Misha Gurevich and Vivian Belenky of Aerolamp
Garrison Lovely
Journalist and author of Obsolete, The AI Industry's Trillion-Dollar Race to Replace Us and How to Stop It
Jacobin and other outlets
Episode: Cheap cognition, supercharged surveillance, and AI risks, with Garrison Lovely
Clara Collier
Editor-in-Chief of Asterisk Magazine
Asterisk Magazine
Episode: What LLMs can and can't do for writers, with Clara Collier of Asterisk Magazine
Justin Kuiper
Guest, educator and creator, runs Proof Positive
Proof Positive, Substack
Episode: YouTube economics now, with Justin Kuiper
Aaron Brown
Author of Wrong Number and Reason video series on statistics misuse
Episode: Wrong numbers and why they survive, with Aaron Brown

Host

Patrick McKenzie
Host of Complex Systems; interviewer; widely recognized for interdisciplinary, systems-thinking approach

Reviews

4.9 out of 5 stars from 459 ratings
  • Very Interesting!

    This show was recommended to me on my podcast app and I was skeptical at first since I don’t have the background in the topics discussed. But Patrick makes each episode very clear and entertaining. I also like I could listen to a random episode I would like it, even if the subject is specific and niche

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Leopold P Bloom
    United States3 months ago
  • Great episode with Des

    Super conversation, v insightful

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    MarkhamN
    Ireland9 months ago
  • Top tier. Patrick is an eloquent nerd and the podcast sings for that reason alone. But you will also learn many interesting and useful nuances of how the world works, and having that understanding , you will better appreciate the wonders of civilization that surround you.

    Podcast Addict
    5
    scmccarthy
    9 months ago
  • Informative and entertaining!

    Patrick consistently puts out episodes on things that I don’t think I would be interested in but I end up being interested in it

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    supra supremacy
    United States10 months ago
  • Great show, fun people, but sometimes missing links in show notes

    Same as title with the addition that transcripts I’ve viewed are great!

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    G_Cracker
    United Statesa year ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Audiences appreciate the mix of technical detail and practical takeaways, though some wish show notes could be more comprehensive.
Fans note high signal-to-noise with insightful guests.
Listeners praise clear, entertaining delivery and deep dives into niche topics.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#208
United States/Business/Investing
Apple Podcasts
#170
Italy/Business/Investing
Apple Podcasts
#171
Germany/Business/Investing
Apple Podcasts
#45
Poland/Business/Investing
Apple Podcasts
#83
India/Business/Investing
Apple Podcasts
#111
Ireland/Business/Investing

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

LLMs and the economics of Evil, Inc., with Manish Goregaokar
Q: What practical precautions should individuals take to defend themselves against these evolving scams?
Fundamental security hygiene such as 2FA, hardware security keys, and awareness that caller IDs and from addresses can be spoofed; always initiate contact with known, official channels; use password hygiene and be cautious with real-time or urgent requests that bypass normal channels.
LLMs and the economics of Evil, Inc., with Manish Goregaokar
Q: Do you want to tell people what the scenario for that attack is?
I described a scenario where a programmer is approached with a convincing, company-like opportunity, is guided through an interview process, and ends up being phished via sign-in with Google during an NDA, enabling attackers to steal credentials and pivot across services to extract money.
Cheap cognition, supercharged surveillance, and AI risks, with Garrison Lovely
Q: What keeps you up at night about surveillance and cognition becoming cheaper and more capable?
The ability to parse and analyze massive datasets, including private communications, opens the door to pervasive surveillance and potential abuses; without strong, transparent regulation and robust civil protections, this could erode privacy and civil liberties.
Cheap cognition, supercharged surveillance, and AI risks, with Garrison Lovely
Q: Do you think writing code by hand is still essential, or has AI reshaped what counts as essential in software engineering?
AI has shifted the core of coding away from manual typing toward higher-level design and orchestration, with LLMs handling much of the implementation under human supervision. Top architects may not read generated code as much, but humans still guide architecture and critical decisions.
The economics of putting germicidal light in every room, with Misha Gurevich and Vivian Belenky of Aerolamp
Q: What is the rough cost model for installing far-UVC lamps in a building?
A typical install might be around $500 per lamp plus installation costs; for larger buildings the total can reach six figures for lamps and professional installation, with DIY installation being cheaper.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

Listeners per Episode
Gender Skew
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Frequently Asked Questions About Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie

What is Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A deep-due, analytically minded show exploring how institutions, technology, and incentives shape finance, policy, and society. Episodes consistently thread together complex systems thinking with practical implications, featuring guests who are researchers, engineers, journalists, and industry insiders discussing topics like AI risk, payments infrastructure, banking, and regulatory dynamics. Noteworthy is the host's penchant for connecting technical detail to broader systemic outcomes, often through long-form conversations that balance skepticism with curiosity. Listeners are likely looking for rigorous, lay-readable explorations of how large-scale systems operate and how to reason about risk, policy, and innovation in finance, tech, and go... more

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Which podcasts are similar to Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie?

These podcasts share a similar audience with Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie:

1. Conversations with Tyler
2. Dwarkesh Podcast
3. Money Stuff: The Podcast
4. Odd Lots
5. Signals and Threads

How many episodes of Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie are there?

Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie launched 2 years ago and published 108 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie?

Recent guests on Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie include:

1. Max Spero
2. Alex Elliott
3. Manish Arth
4. Misha Gurevich
5. Vivian Belenky
6. Garrison Lovely
7. Clara Collier
8. Justin Kuiper

To view more recent guests and their details, simply upgrade your Rephonic account. You'll also get access to a typical guest profile to help you decide if the show is worth pitching.

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