Rephonic
Artwork for Scaling Laws
Artificial Intelligence
AI Governance
AI Regulation
AI Policy
Open Source AI
Innovation Policy
Governance
Law
Congress
Technology Policy
Artificial General Intelligence
Openai
AI Policy Debate
State Legislation
Political Dynamics
Public Trust In AI
Geopolitical Implications
First Amendment
AI Action Plan
Libel Law

Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow a... more

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Artwork for Scaling Laws

Latest Episodes

Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Francis Shen, Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota, director of the Shen Neurolaw Lab, and candidate for Hennepin County Attorney.

The conversation covered the intersection of neur... more

Ziad Reslan, a member of OpenAI’s Product Policy Staff and a Senior Fellow with the Schmidt Program on Artificial Intelligence, Emerging Technologies, and National Power at Yale University, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the Uni... more

Connecticut State Senator James Maroney and Neil Chilson, Head of AI Policy at the Abundance Institute, join Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, and Alan Rozenshtein... more

Alan Z. Rozenshtein, Lawfare senior editor and associate professor of law the University of Minnesota, speaks with Cass Sunstein, the Robert Walmsley University Professor at Harvard University, about his new book, Imperfect Oracle: What AI Can and Ca... more

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Recent Guests

Ziad Reslan
A member of the OpenAI Product Policy staff
OpenAI
Episode: Release Schedules and Iterative Deployment with Open AI's Ziad Reslan
Senator James Maroney
Connecticut State Senator
State of Connecticut
Episode: A Year That Felt Like a Decade: 2025 Recap with Sen. Maroney & Neil Chilson
Cass Sunstein
Robert Walmsley University Professor at Harvard University and author of 'Imperfect Oracle, What AI Can and Cannot Do'
Harvard University
Episode: Cass Sunstein on What AI Can and Cannot Do
Jakub Kraus
Lawfare's Tarbell Fellow
Lawfare
Episode: Rapid Response on the AI Preemption Executive Order
Graham Dufault
General Counsel of The App Association
The App Association
Episode: Graham Dufault on small businesses and navigating EU AI laws
Caleb Withers
Research associate at the Center for a New American Security, focusing on frontier AI and national security.
Center for a New American Security
Episode: Caleb Withers on the Cybersecurity Frontier in the Age of AI
Gabriel Nicholas
Member of the product policy team at Anthropic and knowledgeable about AI agents.
Anthropic
Episode: Anthropic's Gabriel Nicholas Analyzes AI Agents
Brett Goldstein
Special Advisor to the Chancellor on National Security and Strategic Initiatives
Vanderbilt University
Episode: The GoLaxy Revelations: China's AI-Driven Influence Operations, with Brett Goldstein, Brett Benson, and Renée DiResta
Brett Benson
Associate Professor of Political Science
Vanderbilt University
Episode: The GoLaxy Revelations: China's AI-Driven Influence Operations, with Brett Goldstein, Brett Benson, and Renée DiResta

Hosts

Alan Rozenshtein
Associate Professor of Law and Research Director at Lawfare, with a focus on AI policy and its legal implications.
Kevin Frazier
AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas, involved in discussions and writings on AI legislation and policy.

Reviews

4.5 out of 5 stars from 44 ratings
  • The great team from Lawfare takes their admirable expertise in law and national security and then talks to some not always very technical people about tech stuff that is largely out of Lawfare's area of expertise.

    There's a nugget of a good idea here because most tech people who can talk credibly about the tech side have no idea what they are talking about when they try to talk about public policy and social impacts to deal with this stuff. But starting with some credulous guessing and then app... more

    Podchaser
    2
    wrosecrans
    2 months ago
  • Scaling Laws formerly Arbiters of Truth

    Episodes of Scaling Laws begin 2025.07.02. Any review/rating before this date presumably applied to AoT. I’m just noting this for the record b/c the current featured review was authored in 2024.

    (Also noted for the record: Hook ‘Em, Horns! 🙃)

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Suzushka
    United States5 months ago
  • Can't believe they gave doxxer/journalist/Karen Taylor Lorenz a platform.

    Can't believe they gave doxxer/journalist/Karen Taylor Lorenz a platform. Shame.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    jaiboregio78
    United States2 years ago
  • Bringing in the Content Moderation Auditors

    The about auditing edition w/ Colleen Honigsberg was interesting anyway, but when Dr. Honigsberg turned questions back to Evelyn Douek, it was especially so. Getting clear about transparency is harder than one might think.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Thulin Passage
    Canada4 years ago
  • They finally got their own show!

    Yay! This is, by a mile, the best audio resource about the downside of social media. Evelyn, Quinta et al are distinctive in their ability to let their subjects do the talking. You won’t find much show-boating here, just good information.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    MBelderson
    United Kingdom4 years ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Listeners appreciate the comprehensive insights provided on AI and its regulations, often highlighting the depth of discussion on pertinent topics.
Feedback indicates a variety of opinions on specific guests and subjects, reflecting the nuanced discussions surrounding technology and ethics.
Some listeners note concerns about the potential biases and implications of guests presented, suggesting a thoughtful audience engaged with the content.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#102
United States/Government
Apple Podcasts
#186
United Kingdom/Government
Apple Podcasts
#54
Germany/Government
Apple Podcasts
#17
Ireland/Government
Apple Podcasts
#21
Chile/Government
Apple Podcasts
#31
South Korea/Government

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Release Schedules and Iterative Deployment with Open AI's Ziad Reslan
Q: What role can public policy makers play in supporting this approach?
Public policymakers should ensure that AI technology is used for its intended purpose while preventing misuse, emphasizing the importance of accessible explanations of technology for citizens.
Release Schedules and Iterative Deployment with Open AI's Ziad Reslan
Q: What does the OpenAI dictionary definition of iterative deployment mean for deciding when and how to release a model?
Iterative deployment means trusting users to unlock the potential of technology through their actual use, allowing for refinements based on real-world applications.
Release Schedules and Iterative Deployment with Open AI's Ziad Reslan
Q: How the heck did you end up on the product policy staff at OpenAI?
Ziad Reslan shares his journey from being born and raised in Beirut to practicing law and ultimately understanding tech policy, which led him to work with OpenAI's product policy team.
A Year That Felt Like a Decade: 2025 Recap with Sen. Maroney & Neil Chilson
Q: What are the predictions for AI legislation moving forward?
Both Neil and Senator Maroney foresee continued activity in AI legislation, focusing on industry-specific regulations and the emerging need for transparency in AI interactions.
A Year That Felt Like a Decade: 2025 Recap with Sen. Maroney & Neil Chilson
Q: How did Senator Maroney perceive Congress's relative inaction on AI regulation?
Senator Maroney noted that while there is consensus on the necessity for action, the nature of that action remains debated, highlighting historical drawbacks in tech legislation.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About Scaling Laws

What is Scaling Laws about and what kind of topics does it cover?

Focusing on the intersection of artificial intelligence (AI) and policy, discussions often center around the regulation of AI technology, its implications for society, and the evolving landscape of legislation governing its use. Co-hosts engage with experts across various sectors, addressing pressing questions in the realm of AI, including influence operations, AI energy consumption, and concerns regarding job displacement. Unique to this program is its blend of expert interviews and rapid-response analysis of current events, making it a valuable resource for those interested in understanding the complexities surrounding AI governance and its impact on daily life.

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Which podcasts are similar to Scaling Laws?

These podcasts share a similar audience with Scaling Laws:

1. Rational Security
2. The Lawfare Podcast
3. ChinaTalk
4. The Gray Area with Sean Illing
5. Hard Fork

How many episodes of Scaling Laws are there?

Scaling Laws launched 4 years ago and published 192 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Scaling Laws?

Recent guests on Scaling Laws include:

1. Ziad Reslan
2. Senator James Maroney
3. Cass Sunstein
4. Jakub Kraus
5. Graham Dufault
6. Caleb Withers
7. Gabriel Nicholas
8. Brett Goldstein

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