Rephonic
Artwork for Scaling Laws
Artificial Intelligence
AI Governance
AI Regulation
AI Policy
Open Source AI
Innovation Policy
Governance
China AI Development
Law
Congress
Technology Policy
Artificial General Intelligence
Openai
AI Policy Debate
State Legislation
Political Dynamics
Public Trust In AI
First Amendment
AI Action Plan
Libel Law

Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow a... more

PublishesTwice weeklyEpisodes178Founded4 years ago
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Artwork for Scaling Laws

Latest Episodes

Mosharaf Chowdhury, associate professor at the University of Michigan and director of the ML Energy lab, and Dan Zhao, AI researcher at MIT, GoogleX, and Microsoft focused on AI for science and sustainable and energy-efficient AI, join Kevin Frazier,... more

David Sullivan, Executive Director of the Digital Trust & Safety Partnership, and Rayi Iyer, Managing Director of the Psychology of Technology Institute at USC’s Neely Center, join join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of... more

In this Scaling Laws rapid response episode, hosts Kevin Frazier and Alan Rozenshtein talk about SB-53, the frontier AI transparency (and more) law that California Governor Gavin Newsom signed into law on September 29.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.co... more

Neil Chilson, Head of AI Policy at the Abundance Institute, and Gus Hurwitz, Senior Fellow and CTIC Academic Director at Penn Carey Law School and Director of Law & Economics Programs at the International Center for Law & Economics, join Kevin Frazie... more

Key Facts

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Recent Guests

David Sullivan
Founding executive director of the Digital Trust and Safety Partnership
Digital Trust and Safety Partnership
Episode: AI Safety Meet Trust & Safety with Ravi Iyer and David Sullivan
Ravi Iyer
Managing director of the Psychology of Technology Institute at USC's Neely Center
USC's Neely Center
Episode: AI Safety Meet Trust & Safety with Ravi Iyer and David Sullivan
Neil Chilson
Head of AI Policy at the Abundance Institute
Abundance Institute
Episode: The Ivory Tower and AI (Live from IHS's Technology, Liberalism, and Abundance Conference).
Gus Hurwitz
Senior Fellow and Academic Director at Penn Carey Law School
Penn Carey Law School
Episode: The Ivory Tower and AI (Live from IHS's Technology, Liberalism, and Abundance Conference).
Renee DiResta
Associate research professor at Georgetown University and a contributing editor at Lawfare.
Georgetown University
Episode: AI and Young Minds: Navigating Mental Health Risks with Renee DiResta and Jess Miers
Jess Miers
Visiting assistant professor of law at the University of Akron School of Law.
University of Akron
Episode: AI and Young Minds: Navigating Mental Health Risks with Renee DiResta and Jess Miers
Pam Samuelson
Richard M. Sherman Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of California, Berkeley School of Law
University of California, Berkeley
Episode: AI Copyright Lawsuits with Pam Samuelson
Joshua Gans
Professor at the University of Toronto and co-author of 'Power and Prediction, The Disruptive Economics of Artificial Intelligence'
University of Toronto
Episode: AI and the Future of Work: Joshua Gans on Navigating Job Displacement
Peter Harrell
Adjunct Senior Fellow at the Center for a New American Security
Center for a New American Security
Episode: Uncle Sam Buys In: Examining the Intel Deal

Hosts

Alan Rozenshtein
Co-host and Professor at Minnesota Law, Research Director at Lawfare.
Kevin Frazier
Co-host and AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas, Senior Editor at Lawfare.

Reviews

4.6 out of 5 stars from 43 ratings
  • Scaling Laws formerly Arbiters of Truth

    Episodes of Scaling Laws begin 2025.07.02. Any review/rating before this date presumably applied to AoT. I’m just noting this for the record b/c the current featured review was authored in 2024.

    (Also noted for the record: Hook ‘Em, Horns! 🙃)

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Suzushka
    United States3 months ago
  • Can't believe they gave doxxer/journalist/Karen Taylor Lorenz a platform.

    Can't believe they gave doxxer/journalist/Karen Taylor Lorenz a platform. Shame.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    jaiboregio78
    United States2 years ago
  • Bringing in the Content Moderation Auditors

    The about auditing edition w/ Colleen Honigsberg was interesting anyway, but when Dr. Honigsberg turned questions back to Evelyn Douek, it was especially so. Getting clear about transparency is harder than one might think.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Thulin Passage
    Canada3 years ago
  • They finally got their own show!

    Yay! This is, by a mile, the best audio resource about the downside of social media. Evelyn, Quinta et al are distinctive in their ability to let their subjects do the talking. You won’t find much show-boating here, just good information.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    MBelderson
    United Kingdom3 years ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Listeners appreciate the timely and informed discussions on the challenges of AI regulation.
The show's focus on expert opinions and policy analysis is seen as a valuable resource.
Feedback suggests a high level of satisfaction with the depth of content and the caliber of guests.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#84
United States/Government
Apple Podcasts
#192
Canada/Government
Apple Podcasts
#210
United Kingdom/Government
Apple Podcasts
#139
Australia/Government
Apple Podcasts
#142
Italy/Government
Apple Podcasts
#200
France/Government

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

AI and Young Minds: Navigating Mental Health Risks with Renee DiResta and Jess Miers
Q: What are the distinct risks that generative AI systems pose to children?
Children interacting with AI chatbots may face severe mental health risks, including exacerbation of pre-existing conditions, which can lead to tragic outcomes.
AI and the Future of Work: Joshua Gans on Navigating Job Displacement
Q: Would you say that's a fair assessment?
Gans acknowledges the value of task-by-task analysis but emphasizes the need for a systems-level understanding of job impacts caused by technology adoption.
AI and the Future of Work: Joshua Gans on Navigating Job Displacement
Q: How are you reading these headlines right now? Is it accurate?
Gans expresses skepticism about the headlines suggesting mass unemployment due to AI, noting speculation around job displacement and the requirement for an unprecedented GDP increase for mass unemployment to occur.
The State of AI Safety with Steven Adler
Q: How do you weigh the costs and benefits in the discussion of AI?
Adler argues that the costs need to be viewed from a societal perspective, urging for evidence-based policymaking to ensure the benefits of AI outweigh the risks.
The State of AI Safety with Steven Adler
Q: What do you think should be top of mind for policy makers regarding AI safety?
Adler emphasizes the importance of keeping control over AI systems, implementing rigorous security standards, and ensuring that AI development doesn't lead to misuse or chaos.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

Listeners per Episode
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Frequently Asked Questions About Scaling Laws

What is Scaling Laws about and what kind of topics does it cover?

The content focuses on the intricate relationship between artificial intelligence, regulatory frameworks, and innovation policy. Exploring the latest developments in AI governance, issues discussed include state and federal legislation, the challenges facing regulatory bodies, and the implications of AI technologies on society. The engaging discussions feature interviews with key experts, policymakers, and industry leaders, emphasizing the need for thoughtful and proactive regulatory approaches that can adapt to rapid technological advancements. The podcast stands out by providing timely insights and analysis on current events related to AI governance, making it an essential resource for those interested in the intersection of technology an... more

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These podcasts share a similar audience with Scaling Laws:

1. The AI Policy Podcast
2. Rational Security
3. Hard Fork
4. Bloomberg Law
5. The Lawfare Podcast

How many episodes of Scaling Laws are there?

Scaling Laws launched 4 years ago and published 178 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Scaling Laws?

Recent guests on Scaling Laws include:

1. David Sullivan
2. Ravi Iyer
3. Neil Chilson
4. Gus Hurwitz
5. Renee DiResta
6. Jess Miers
7. Pam Samuelson
8. Joshua Gans

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