Rephonic
Artwork for Scaling Laws
Artificial Intelligence
AI Governance
AI Regulation
AI Policy
Open Source AI
Innovation Policy
Governance
Law
Technology Policy
Congress
Artificial General Intelligence
Openai
AI Policy Debate
State Legislation
Political Dynamics
Geopolitical Implications
Public Trust In AI
First Amendment
AI Action Plan
Libel Law

Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow a... more

PublishesTwice weeklyEpisodes206Founded4 years ago
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Artwork for Scaling Laws

Latest Episodes

Alan Rozenshtein, research director at Lawfare, spoke with Woodrow Hartzog, the Andrew R. Randall Professor of Law at Boston University School of Law, and Jessica Silbey, Professor of Law and Honorable Frank R. Kenison Distinguished Scholar in Law at... more

Tomicah Tillemann, President at Project Liberty Institute, joins the show. Tomicah offers a unique perspective on regulating emerging technology given his time as a venture capitalist and head of policy at Andreessen Horowitz and Haun Ventures. His c... more

Kevin Frazier hangs out with Caleb Watney of the Institute for Progress and Austin Carson of SeedAI at the Ashby Workshops to discuss the long-run policy foundations needed for the AI Age.

Rather than focusing on near-term regulation, the conversati... more

Alan Rozenshtein, associate professor of law at the University of Minnesota and research director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and senior editor at Lawfare, were joined by Dean B... more

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Recent Guests

Tomicah Tillemann
President at Project Liberty Institute
Project Liberty Institute
Episode: Can AI Enable Human Agency?, with Tomicah Tillemann
Caleb Watney
A leading thinker at the Institute for Progress, discussing meta-science and long-term policy for science and AI
Institute for Progress
Episode: Live from Ashby: Taking a Long View on AI Governance with Austin Carson and Caleb Watney
Austin Carson
Founder of SeedAI, focused on building deliberative spaces for policymakers and long-term AI policy
SeedAI
Episode: Live from Ashby: Taking a Long View on AI Governance with Austin Carson and Caleb Watney
Dean Ball
Senior Fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation, Author of Hyperdimensional
Foundation for American Innovation
Episode: Scaling Laws x AI Summer: Who Controls the Machine God?
Timothy Lee
Journalist and Author of Understanding AI Newsletter
Understanding AI Newsletter
Episode: Scaling Laws x AI Summer: Who Controls the Machine God?
Packy McCormick
Author of Not Boring newsletter and founder of an early-stage investment firm.
Not Boring
Episode: In Defense of Optimism with Packy McCormick
Cullen O'Keefe
Research Director at the Institute for Law and AI
Institute for Law and AI
Episode: Can AI Make AI Regulation Cheaper?, with Cullen O'Keefe and Kevin Frazier
Kevin Frazier
AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare
University of Texas / Lawfare
Episode: Can AI Make AI Regulation Cheaper?, with Cullen O'Keefe and Kevin Frazier
Amanda Askell
Leads the Personality Alignment Team at Anthropic
Anthropic
Episode: Claude's Constitution, with Amanda Askell

Hosts

Alan Rozenshtein
Co-host; Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota and Research Director at Lawfare.
Kevin Frazier
Co-host; AI Innovation and Law Fellow at Texas Law and Senior Editor at Lawfare.

Reviews

4.4 out of 5 stars from 47 ratings
  • Goofy

    Not up to the standards of the other Lawfare pods.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    mhaliett
    United States21 days ago
  • Best of a bad lot

    The episode with Francis Shen of Neurolaw is excellent. Lots to disagree with. Specifically the idea of experimentally implementing surveillance before there’s general recognition that police and prosecutors AND THE DAMN FEDS are more interested in reducing crime than persecuting people (who are criminals to be sure, but that’s just an excuse for sadism). But both discussants recognize the problem and I salute you!

    I subscribed immediately after the trailer but pretty quickly left because of to... more

    Apple Podcasts
    2
    Standards Geek
    Japan2 months ago
  • The great team from Lawfare takes their admirable expertise in law and national security and then talks to some not always very technical people about tech stuff that is largely out of Lawfare's area of expertise.

    There's a nugget of a good idea here because most tech people who can talk credibly about the tech side have no idea what they are talking about when they try to talk about public policy and social impacts to deal with this stuff. But starting with some credulous guessing and then app... more

    Podchaser
    2
    wrosecrans
    4 months ago
  • Scaling Laws formerly Arbiters of Truth

    Episodes of Scaling Laws begin 2025.07.02. Any review/rating before this date presumably applied to AoT. I’m just noting this for the record b/c the current featured review was authored in 2024.

    (Also noted for the record: Hook ‘Em, Horns! 🙃)

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Suzushka
    United States8 months ago
  • Can't believe they gave doxxer/journalist/Karen Taylor Lorenz a platform.

    Can't believe they gave doxxer/journalist/Karen Taylor Lorenz a platform. Shame.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    jaiboregio78
    United States3 years ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Listeners appreciate the deep dives into current issues surrounding AI and law, often highlighting the engaging discussions and expert insights.
There is criticism regarding the podcast's handling of controversial topics and guest selections, suggesting some listeners feel certain voices shouldn't be amplified.
Overall, the combination of legal insights and tech policy makes it a unique resource, particularly valued by those in related professional fields.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#54
United States/Government
Apple Podcasts
#138
Canada/Government
Apple Podcasts
#202
United Kingdom/Government
Apple Podcasts
#55
Italy/Government
Apple Podcasts
#187
Australia/Government
Apple Podcasts
#241
France/Government

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Alan and Kevin join the Cognitive Revolution.
Q: How have firms reacted to AI technologies in legal practice?
There's a dynamic shift where some firms may prefer hiring AI-savvy individuals over traditional top graduates due to the increasing importance of AI in legal workflows.
Alan and Kevin join the Cognitive Revolution.
Q: What is going on at the intersection of AI and law?
It's a big traffic jam at this point due to legal systems constructed decades ago that are now being tested by AI advancements, causing lots of rich scholarly discussions and the need for updated laws.
Release Schedules and Iterative Deployment with Open AI's Ziad Reslan
Q: What role can public policy makers play in supporting this approach?
Public policymakers should ensure that AI technology is used for its intended purpose while preventing misuse, emphasizing the importance of accessible explanations of technology for citizens.
Release Schedules and Iterative Deployment with Open AI's Ziad Reslan
Q: What does the OpenAI dictionary definition of iterative deployment mean for deciding when and how to release a model?
Iterative deployment means trusting users to unlock the potential of technology through their actual use, allowing for refinements based on real-world applications.
Release Schedules and Iterative Deployment with Open AI's Ziad Reslan
Q: How the heck did you end up on the product policy staff at OpenAI?
Ziad Reslan shares his journey from being born and raised in Beirut to practicing law and ultimately understanding tech policy, which led him to work with OpenAI's product policy team.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About Scaling Laws

What is Scaling Laws about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A thoughtful exploration of the intersection between artificial intelligence, law, and public policy, episodes feature in-depth discussions on the implications and ethical considerations of AI in various sectors. Hosts engage with experts from diverse backgrounds, from legal scholars to tech policy professionals, tackling pressing issues such as AI regulations, its impact on society, and the challenges posed by emerging technologies. The podcast is particularly noteworthy for its commitment to transparency and its critical stance on how AI advancements require careful governance to balance innovation against societal risks.

Listeners can expect insightful commentary on the evolving landscape of AI legislation, as well as interviews with in... more

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These podcasts share a similar audience with Scaling Laws:

1. The Ezra Klein Show
2. Interesting Times with Ross Douthat
3. Stay Tuned with Preet
4. Hard Fork
5. The Opinions

How many episodes of Scaling Laws are there?

Scaling Laws launched 4 years ago and published 206 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Scaling Laws?

Recent guests on Scaling Laws include:

1. Tomicah Tillemann
2. Caleb Watney
3. Austin Carson
4. Dean Ball
5. Timothy Lee
6. Packy McCormick
7. Cullen O'Keefe
8. Kevin Frazier

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