Rephonic
Artwork for Scaling Laws
Artificial Intelligence
AI Regulation
AI Policy
Open Source AI
Innovation Policy
Governance
China AI Development
Law
Technology Policy
Congress
Artificial General Intelligence
Openai
AI Policy Debate
State Legislation
Political Dynamics
AI Governance
Geopolitical Implications
Public Trust In AI
First Amendment
AI Action Plan

Scaling Laws explores (and occasionally answers) the questions that keep OpenAI’s policy team up at night, the ones that motivate legislators to host hearings on AI and draft new AI bills, and the ones that are top of mind for tech-savvy law and policy students. Co-hosts Alan Rozenshtein, Professor at Minnesota Law and Research Director at Lawfare, and Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow a... more

PublishesTwice weeklyEpisodes174Founded4 years ago
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Artwork for Scaling Laws

Latest Episodes

Alan Rozenshtein, Renee DiResta, and Jess Miers discuss the distinct risks that generative AI systems pose to children, particularly in relation to mental health. They explore the balance between the benefits and harms of AI, emphasizing the importan... more

On today's Scaling Laws episode, Alan Rozenshtein sat down with Pam Samuelson, the Richard M. Sherman Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law, to discuss the rapidly evolving legal landscape at the inte... more

Joshua Gans, a professor at the University of Toronto and co-author of "Power and Prediction: The Disruptive Economics of Artificial Intelligence," joins Kevin Frazier, the AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a S... more

Steven Adler, former OpenAI safety researcher, author of Clear-Eyed AI on Substack, and independent AGI-readiness researcher, joins Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law, to assess the current state of A... more

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Recent Guests

Pam Samuelson
Richard M. Sherman Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of California, Berkeley School of Law
University of California, Berkeley
Episode: AI Copyright Lawsuits with Pam Samuelson
Joshua Gans
Professor at the University of Toronto and co-author of 'Power and Prediction, The Disruptive Economics of Artificial Intelligence'
University of Toronto
Episode: AI and the Future of Work: Joshua Gans on Navigating Job Displacement
Peter Harrell
Adjunct Senior Fellow at the Center for a New American Security
Center for a New American Security
Episode: Uncle Sam Buys In: Examining the Intel Deal
MacKenzie Price
Co-founder of Alpha School, dedicated to transforming education through personalized learning.
Alpha School
Episode: AI in the Classroom with MacKenzie Price, Alpha School co-founder, and Rebecca Winthrop, leader of the Brookings Global Task Force on AI in Education
Rebecca Winthrop
Leader of the Brookings Global Task Force on AI in Education, focused on the implications of AI in educational contexts.
Brookings Institution
Episode: AI in the Classroom with MacKenzie Price, Alpha School co-founder, and Rebecca Winthrop, leader of the Brookings Global Task Force on AI in Education
Nathan Lambert
Post-Training Lead at the Allen Institute for AI
Allen Institute for AI
Episode: The Open Questions Surrounding Open Source AI with Nathan Lambert and Keegan McBride
Keegan McBride
Lecturer in AI, Government, and Policy at the Oxford Internet Institute
Oxford Internet Institute
Episode: The Open Questions Surrounding Open Source AI with Nathan Lambert and Keegan McBride
Anat Lior
Expert on AI liability and agency law
Episode: The Legal Maze of AI Liability: Anat Lior on Bridging Law and Emerging Tech
Andrew Freedman
Executive Director at Fathom, focusing on AI regulatory solutions
Fathom
Episode: A New AI Regulatory Regime? SB 813 with Lauren Wagner and Andrew Freedman

Hosts

Alan Rozenshtein
Co-host and Professor at Minnesota Law, Research Director at Lawfare.
Kevin Frazier
Co-host and AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas, Senior Editor at Lawfare.

Reviews

4.5 out of 5 stars from 42 ratings
  • Scaling Laws formerly Arbiters of Truth

    Episodes of Scaling Laws begin 2025.07.02. Any review/rating before this date presumably applied to AoT. I’m just noting this for the record b/c the current featured review was authored in 2024.

    (Also noted for the record: Hook ‘Em, Horns! 🙃)

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Suzushka
    United States2 months ago
  • Can't believe they gave doxxer/journalist/Karen Taylor Lorenz a platform.

    Can't believe they gave doxxer/journalist/Karen Taylor Lorenz a platform. Shame.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    jaiboregio78
    United States2 years ago
  • Bringing in the Content Moderation Auditors

    The about auditing edition w/ Colleen Honigsberg was interesting anyway, but when Dr. Honigsberg turned questions back to Evelyn Douek, it was especially so. Getting clear about transparency is harder than one might think.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Thulin Passage
    Canada3 years ago
  • They finally got their own show!

    Yay! This is, by a mile, the best audio resource about the downside of social media. Evelyn, Quinta et al are distinctive in their ability to let their subjects do the talking. You won’t find much show-boating here, just good information.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    MBelderson
    United Kingdom3 years ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Listeners appreciate the timely and informed discussions on the challenges of AI regulation.
The show's focus on expert opinions and policy analysis is seen as a valuable resource.
Feedback suggests a high level of satisfaction with the depth of content and the caliber of guests.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#63
United States/Government
Apple Podcasts
#191
United Kingdom/Government
Apple Podcasts
#235
Canada/Government
Apple Podcasts
#57
Italy/Government
Apple Podcasts
#224
France/Government
Apple Podcasts
#21
South Korea/Government

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

AI and the Future of Work: Joshua Gans on Navigating Job Displacement
Q: Would you say that's a fair assessment?
Gans acknowledges the value of task-by-task analysis but emphasizes the need for a systems-level understanding of job impacts caused by technology adoption.
AI and the Future of Work: Joshua Gans on Navigating Job Displacement
Q: How are you reading these headlines right now? Is it accurate?
Gans expresses skepticism about the headlines suggesting mass unemployment due to AI, noting speculation around job displacement and the requirement for an unprecedented GDP increase for mass unemployment to occur.
The State of AI Safety with Steven Adler
Q: How do you weigh the costs and benefits in the discussion of AI?
Adler argues that the costs need to be viewed from a societal perspective, urging for evidence-based policymaking to ensure the benefits of AI outweigh the risks.
The State of AI Safety with Steven Adler
Q: What do you think should be top of mind for policy makers regarding AI safety?
Adler emphasizes the importance of keeping control over AI systems, implementing rigorous security standards, and ensuring that AI development doesn't lead to misuse or chaos.
Contrasting and Conflicting Efforts to Regulate Big Tech: EU v. US
Q: Anu, how is the pressure and the perception that both the EU and the US and the rest of the world are in a race or competition with China shaping much of the discourse?
This competition drives both the US and EU to regulate AI, as they are concerned about China's advancements and the need for technological supremacy.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

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Frequently Asked Questions About Scaling Laws

What is Scaling Laws about and what kind of topics does it cover?

The content focuses on the intricate relationship between artificial intelligence, regulatory frameworks, and innovation policy. Exploring the latest developments in AI governance, issues discussed include state and federal legislation, the challenges facing regulatory bodies, and the implications of AI technologies on society. The engaging discussions feature interviews with key experts, policymakers, and industry leaders, emphasizing the need for thoughtful and proactive regulatory approaches that can adapt to rapid technological advancements. The podcast stands out by providing timely insights and analysis on current events related to AI governance, making it an essential resource for those interested in the intersection of technology an... more

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Which podcasts are similar to Scaling Laws?

These podcasts share a similar audience with Scaling Laws:

1. The Lawfare Podcast
2. Rational Security
3. Stay Tuned with Preet
4. The Just Security Podcast
5. Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts

How many episodes of Scaling Laws are there?

Scaling Laws launched 4 years ago and published 174 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Scaling Laws?

Recent guests on Scaling Laws include:

1. Pam Samuelson
2. Joshua Gans
3. Peter Harrell
4. MacKenzie Price
5. Rebecca Winthrop
6. Nathan Lambert
7. Keegan McBride
8. Anat Lior

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