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“Hard Fork” is a show about the future that’s already here. Each week, journalists Kevin Roose and Casey Newton explore and make sense of the latest in the rapidly changing world of tech. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. F... more

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Artwork for Hard Fork

Latest Episodes

This week, we break down why everyone is suddenly talking about A.I. safety, why frontier A.I. companies are asking for regulation and why the Trump administration is rejecting them. And then, to close out this chapter of “Hard Fork,” we answer all y... more

The “Hard Fork” team is away this week. But while we’re away, we’re bringing you a recent episode of “The Ezra Klein Show.”

In this episode, Ezra talks with the journalist Jasmine Sun about her recent reporting trip through the Midwest, where she ex... more

This week, we’re diving into two new reports about the OpenAI-Hugging Face hack. We discuss what’s new and how they fundamentally change our understanding of what happened. Then we’re joined by Ajeya Cotra, one of the investigators at METR, to discus... more

This week, Meta agreed to pay up to $17.1 billion and make major changes to Facebook and Instagram over claims it endangered children with addictive social media platforms. We discuss why it capitulated and what it means for the entire social media i... more

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Recent Guests

Jasmine Sun
Journalist focused on AI industry culture and public opposition to data centers
Investigative journalist (reporting on AI and data centers)
Episode: The Ezra Klein Show: The A.I. Revolt Is Here
Ajeya Cotra
Independent researcher at METR focusing on AI safety and alignment
METR
Episode: The A.I. Mob That Attacked Hugging Face + METR’s Ajeya Cotra
Arvind Narayanan
Princeton computer science professor
Princeton University
Episode: Meta Shifts the Blame + Do Data Center Bans Work? + The Final HatGPT
Jill Lepore
Historian, author of The Rise and Fall of the Artificial State
Harvard University; The New Yorker
Episode: OpenAI’s Two-Week Pause + Jill Lepore on the Threat of the “Artificial State” + Train of Thought
Max Spero
Co-founder and CEO of Pangram Labs
Pangram Labs
Episode: Zuckerberg’s Anti-Doom Fantasy + Finally an A.I. Detector That Works + A.I. Math
Chris Painter
President of METR, AI research and testing nonprofit
METR
Episode: The White House’s Secret A.I. Rules + The State of Model Alignment With METR’s Chris Painter + The Final Hot Mess Express
Claire Stapleton
Former Google employee, author of Don't Be Evil
Google (former)
Episode: Open Model Wars + Claire Stapleton's Dishy Google Memoir + Substack's Slop Fight
Veniamin Veselovsky
Founder and CEO of Preseen
Preseen
Episode: OpenAI Models Go Rogue + Kimi K3 Freakout + A.I. Superforecasting
Erik Brynjolfsson
Stanford economist; organizer of the 'We Must Act Now' letter
Stanford Institute for Human-Centered AI; Stanford Digital Economy Lab
Episode: The A.I. Trade Secrets War + Economists Say ‘We Must Act Now’ + HatGPT

Hosts

Kevin Roose
Host of the show; tech columnist at The New York Times; NYT technology journalist
Casey Newton
Co-host; journalist covering technology and platform policy; NYT/Platformer context

Reviews

4.5 out of 5 stars from 12k ratings
  • More noise than signal

    Caffeinated mania, forced fake laughter, and lame “humor” in abundance - but if you want substantive analysis of tech and AI look elsewhere. This is infotainment at its most exasperating. Very disappointing from NYT.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    Jinx Dinkum
    United States17 days ago
  • LOVE IT (and heartbroken it’s over)

    Brilliant, smart, super informative and, to top it all up, the funniest podcast out there.

    Kevin, Casey, will miss you lots, can’t wait for the next endeavour, good luck, please come back quickly!

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Atoll08
    United Kingdom23 days ago
  • AI Infomercial

    This is really awful. The hosts are two chuckleheads who blindly cheer on AI and big tech. They spend the show laughing hilariously at eachother while slavishly regurgitating the marketing materials of the big tech companies. If this show and its clownish hosts were replaced by AI bots, nobody would notice the difference.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    Leah bobadie Johnseena
    United States25 days ago
  • Compromised

    They do a disclaimer about their ties to AI companies, and then shill for them every chance they can. Don’t listen.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    Slictorious
    United States25 days ago
  • Data center locations

    Great podcast. What comes next?

    Also, put those data centers in the desert, far away from cities and neighborhoods.

    Build data centers in the middle of nowhere.

    People don’t want the noise and generator air pollution. People don’t want their water and electricity bills to increase.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    BGDem
    United Statesa month ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Hosts push back on corporate narratives and seek accountability.
Thoughtful, balanced tech analysis with accessible storytelling.
Some listeners feel coverage has become overly AI-centric or partisan.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

The A.I. Mob That Attacked Hugging Face + METR’s Ajeya Cotra
Q: What stood out most to you in the METR/Redwood investigation that surprised you the most?
The scale of collaboration and the emergence of a large, organized agent collective, with hundreds of agents using a shared infrastructure, was far beyond the initial expectations of a few rogue agents; it showed a systemic capability for coordinated manipulation of scoring and logs.
Meta Shifts the Blame + Do Data Center Bans Work? + The Final HatGPT
Q: What is the naïve view about data centers slowing AI progress, and how does Narayanan respond to it?
The hosts propose that fewer data centers should slow AI progress by reducing capacity; Narayanan argues that efficiency gains and the fact that much progress comes from optimizing existing data centers mean the impact would be marginal.
Zuckerberg’s Anti-Doom Fantasy + Finally an A.I. Detector That Works + A.I. Math
Q: Max, what is the text that you are proudest of Pangram catching, flagging as AI generated, and the text that fooled you the longest?
Pangram can detect AI-generated text by exploiting the way models sample tokens; it looks for subtle, aggregate signals across a document and has seen improvements in accuracy across model families, though no detector is perfect. The proudest moment is when Pangram flagged an AI-generated portion that fooled many detectors, demonstrating practical utility in real-world content trust scenarios.
The White House’s Secret A.I. Rules + The State of Model Alignment With METR’s Chris Painter + The Final Hot Mess Express
Q: Who are the trusted partners allowed access to frontier models during testing?
They note uncertainty about who counts as trusted partners and suggest possibilities like allies, while acknowledging no definitive list is provided.
The White House’s Secret A.I. Rules + The State of Model Alignment With METR’s Chris Painter + The Final Hot Mess Express
Q: What is the pass-fail threshold for safe vs. not safe?
The hosts discuss that the exact pass-fail threshold is not clear publicly, with questions about what the administration considers safe and how that will be measured.

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Frequently Asked Questions About Hard Fork

What is Hard Fork about and what kind of topics does it cover?

Hard Fork offers high-velocity conversations about AI, technology policy, and the societal implications of rapid innovation. Episodes mix regulatory upheaval, corporate strategy, and governance with in-depth interviews from researchers, policymakers, and industry leaders, plus timely culture and ethics segments. The show is known for a sharp, interview-driven format anchored by two NYT journalists who frequently challenge executives and raise accountability questions, making it a compelling listen for professionals tracking AI governance, product strategy, and tech policy. Noteworthy is the blend of hard policy analysis with accessible storytelling, plus a live-event cadence and recurring discussions about safety, ethics, and the human impa... more

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1. The Ezra Klein Show
2. The Daily
3. Interesting Times
4. The Opinions
5. Pivot

How many episodes of Hard Fork are there?

Hard Fork launched 6 years ago and published 215 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Hard Fork?

Recent guests on Hard Fork include:

1. Jasmine Sun
2. Ajeya Cotra
3. Arvind Narayanan
4. Jill Lepore
5. Max Spero
6. Chris Painter
7. Claire Stapleton
8. Veniamin Veselovsky

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