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Artwork for To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll

To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll

Rubrik | Nicole Perlroth | Pod People
China
Cybersecurity
North Korea
Intellectual Property Theft
Chinese Communist Party
United States
Google
Cyber Espionage
Huawei
Mandiant
Critical Infrastructure
Uighurs
Tibet
Dalai Lama
Solar World
Volt Typhoon
Zero-Day Exploits
Chinese Cyberattacks
The Five Poisons
BYD

American companies are being infiltrated—not by hackers breaking in, but by workers. Thousands of North Korean operatives are applying to jobs across the U.S.—and getting them. They are embedding themselves at Fortune 500 companies. Government agencies. Critical infrastructure. Even the firms tasked with stopping this threat. To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll is a first-of-its-kind aud... more

PublishesWeeklyEpisodes19Foundeda year ago
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DocumentaryTechnologySociety & Culture

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Artwork for To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll

Latest Episodes

North Korea has now successfully planted agents in companies over the world. And while businesses are getting better at flagging it, North Koreans still have to meet quota. Cybersecurity experts fear North Koreans will move to monetize their access, ... more

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In the decade after Sony, North Korea learned something fundamental: Destructive cyberattacks make headlines. Financial cyberattacks make money. One year after Sony, North Korea pulled off one of the most audacious bank heists in history and reshaped... more

YouTube

It’s been nearly 12 years since North Korea launched its crippling attack on Sony Pictures Entertainment over a Seth Rogen film. Most Americans remember the celebrity leaks, the embarrassing emails, the Hollywood spectacle of it all. What they missed... more

YouTube

All North Korean IT worker schemes hinge on one thing: a willing participant in America. We found one, and knocked on her door.

Experts have dubbed some of these Americans “laptop farmers.” The North Koreans call them “facilitators” – people willing ... more

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Recent Guests

David Sanger
White House and National Security Correspondent for The New York Times
The New York Times
Episode: Ep. 6: The North Korea Model
Hany Fareed
Professor and chief science officer at Get Real Security, expert on deepfakes
Get Real Security
Episode: Ep. 6: The North Korea Model
Ilya Krugman
Founder of branding agency, discusses deepfake interview incident
Branding/Advertising
Episode: Ep. 6: The North Korea Model
Nikodem Blanda
Individual in deepfake interview example
(mentioned in interview)
Episode: Ep. 6: The North Korea Model
Nick Carlson
Former FBI investigator following North Korea's cyber operations
FBI
Episode: Ep. 5: The Heists
Eric Chen
Head of reverse engineering, Broadcom
Broadcom
Episode: Ep. 5: The Heists
Eric Redbird
Head of global policy
TRM Labs
Episode: Ep. 5: The Heists
Rob Joyce
Former head of NSA Cyber Security Directorate
NSA
Episode: Ep. 5: The Heists
Marcus Hutchins
Principal threat analyst
Expel
Episode: Ep. 5: The Heists

Host

Nicole Perlroth
Host of To Catch a Thief: North Korea On Our Payroll

Reviews

4.8 out of 5 stars from 652 ratings
  • I will get to sleep in my next life.

    I have not had a good night sleep since I read Nicole’s book & now I am listening

    to her podcasts and staying up to do zero day deep dives with Claude.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    LuckyLeopold
    United States3 months ago
  • Important info, Easy to understand

    Despite having worked in cybersecurity awareness and education for years, I’m learning as much here as I did from Nicole’s book. Great podcast!

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    JanetR12
    United States4 months ago
  • Brilliant

    Fascinating and beautifully done. Only one ep 2 but can’t wait to binge. This is just too good.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    HMCPhoebe
    United States8 months ago
  • So scary but must listen

    We need to all be aware. Compelling to listen to and east to understand

    Audible
    5
    3Zs
    United States10 months ago
  • We need to all be aware. Compelling to listen to and east to understand

    Audible
    5
    3Zs
    United States10 months ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Shows deep reporting and strong storytelling that makes complex cyber topics accessible.
Strong word-of-mouth impact as a must-listen for cybersecurity and geopolitics audiences.
Audience reviews praise rigorous sourcing and gripping narratives, with some notes on sound design.
Listeners highlight timely, high-stakes topics that feel both informative and urgent.

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Talking Points

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Ep. 3: The Americans
Q: What is the scale and risk of these laptop farms?
There are dozens of known cases and potentially hundreds of laptops involved, with hosts occasionally unaware of the true purpose, creating a network that funds the regime's programs.
Ep. 3: The Americans
Q: How are North Korean operatives identifying and recruiting American hosts?
Recruitment happens across online platforms like Reddit and Discord, often through seemingly legitimate jobs or casual online chats that exploit financial desperation and social isolation.
BONUS: Live Panel with Top China & Cyber Experts at The New York Stock Exchange
Q: What are the implications of the Chinese cyber threat on U.S. critical infrastructure?
The threat has evolved from data theft to potential attacks on critical infrastructure, aiming for mass disruption in the event of a conflict, such as over Taiwan.
BONUS: Live Panel with Top China & Cyber Experts at The New York Stock Exchange
Q: How do you walk the tight rope between covering Chinese cyber threats and not promoting xenophobia?
As a journalist, it's essential to focus on the Communist Party's actions while being aware of the stigmas that may arise against the larger Chinese populace; distinction is crucial.

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Frequently Asked Questions About This Podcast

What is This Podcast about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A high-suspense, documentary-style series that exposes a global labor pipeline of North Korean IT workers embedded in U.S. companies, government agencies, and critical infrastructure. Through investigative reporting, defectors, and security experts, it traces recruitment, onboarding, and ongoing risk, highlighting deepfakes, social engineering, and the widening reach of insider threats. Episodes emphasize the blurred lines between state espionage and organized crime, the financial leverage behind the operations, and the evolving threat landscape for corporations and national security. Noteworthy angles include firsthand accounts, real-world consequences of remote staffing, and a narrative that connects labor pipelines to geopolitical risk, ... more

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5. The Green Blueprint

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this podcast launched a year ago and published 19 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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Recent guests on this podcast include:

1. David Sanger
2. Hany Fareed
3. Ilya Krugman
4. Nikodem Blanda
5. Nick Carlson
6. Eric Chen
7. Eric Redbird
8. Rob Joyce

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