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Artwork for The Long Game

The Long Game with Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer

Vox Media Podcast Network
Iran
United States
China
Venezuela
National Security
Russia
Greenland
Taiwan
Trump Administration
Israel
Saudi Arabia
U.s.-China Relations
Ukraine
Donald Trump
Strait Of Hormuz
Iran Nuclear Program
U.S. Foreign Policy
Nicolás Maduro
Winter Olympics
U.S. Military

The Long Game is a weekly national security podcast hosted by Jake Sullivan, President Biden’s National Security Advisor, and Jon Finer, his Principal Deputy—senior aides who sat in on the classified Presidential Daily Brief each morning and translated raw intelligence into policy advice. Each week, Jake and Jon will pull back the curtain on how power really works helping you make sense of the nat... more

PublishesWeeklyEpisodes32Founded8 months ago
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Artwork for The Long Game

Latest Episodes

President Trump says the war with Iran is over. But what exactly did the United States agree to?

Ambassador Wendy Sherman, the lead U.S. negotiator of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to assess the new U.S.-Iran agreeme... more

As the World Cup kicks off, what can soccer tell us about the state of the world?

Franklin Foer, author of “How Soccer Explains the World,” joins the show to discuss why the world's most popular sport remains one of the best lenses for understanding... more

More than four years into the Russia-Ukraine war, has the battlefield finally begun to shift?

Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer sit down with Michael Kofman, one of the leading analysts of the conflict, fresh off a trip to Ukraine's frontlines. Kofman arg... more

President Trump is simultaneously pursuing peace talks with Iran while escalating U.S. military pressure in the region following recent strikes. Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer revisit the policy options most likely facing the administration and walk thr... more

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Recent Guests

Michael Kofman
Ukraine conflict analyst and expert on Russian military
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (and analyst/think tank)
Episode: Is Ukraine Now Winning the War Against Russia? (w/Michael Kofman)
Ricardo Zúñiga
Former American diplomat who negotiated with Cuba under the Obama administration
Former U.S. diplomat, Obama administration
Episode: Iran Talks and Trump’s Cuba Strategy w/Ricardo Zúñiga
Jen Easterly
Director of RSA Conference; former director of CISA; cybersecurity expert
RSA Conference / Former CISA
Episode: America’s Cybersecurity Crisis Starts With Software (w/Jen Easterly)
Dan Wang
Author of Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future
Stanford Hoover Institution (research fellow)
Episode: China’s Engineering State vs. America’s Lawyerly Society (w/Dan Wang)
H.R. McMaster
Former National Security Advisor, retired Army Lieutenant General
Former Trump Administration
Episode: Debating the War in Iran and U.S. Strategy (w/H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger)
Matt Pottinger
Former Deputy National Security Advisor, former journalist and Marine intelligence officer
Former Trump Administration
Episode: Debating the War in Iran and U.S. Strategy (w/H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger)
John Kerry
Former Secretary of State; longtime diplomat
U.S. government
Episode: John Kerry on Iran, Israel, and Diplomacy
Ruben Gallego
United States Senator from Arizona; former Marine
United States Senate (Arizona)
Episode: "Chasing the Dragon" In Iran (with Sen. Ruben Gallego)
Helima Croft
Head of Global Commodity Strategy at RBC Capital Markets; former CIA analyst
RBC Capital Markets
Episode: The Iran War Energy Crisis Is Here (with Helima Croft)

Hosts

Jake Sullivan
Host of The Long Game
Jon Finer
Co-host of The Long Game

Reviews

4.8 out of 5 stars from 401 ratings
  • Fabulous and enjoyable!

    This is a refreshingly knowledgeable, informative and fun take on current foreign policy issues by experts on the subject who have been involved in key decisions. This podcast is particularly relevant during today’s rather complex international relations landscape.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    User9419*10
    United Statesa month ago
  • How nice ♥️

    To listen to intelligent disciplined individuals with highly developed expertise who care about our country 🙏🏼

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Che Block
    United Statesa month ago
  • Informative and Fabulous!

    I was guided to this podcast when listening to another. I’m incredibly impressed with the conversation and knowledge of these people narrating the storyline and topics concerning the United States and the world writ large.

    Extraordinary stuff! -Thank you.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Susanyb60
    United States2 months ago
  • So Useful and Needed

    No other way to put it—I love this show. It’s one thing for news reports or people you follow shape your notions on what’s happening to and with our relationships with other countries. It’s quite another to learn how diplomacy is strategized and executed in such a granular way by two guys who are so very good at it. I would also rate this as a nonpartisan show.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Mrliam
    United States2 months ago
  • So informative

    I really enjoy this podcast. I learn so much from them.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Nank38
    United States2 months ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Listeners praise the access to high-profile guests and the long-view policy analysis.
Hosts are well-researched, respectful, and bring insider policy perspective.
The show is informative, substantive, and nonpartisan with deep expertise.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#26
United States/News/News Commentary
Apple Podcasts
#137
United States/News
Apple Podcasts
#9
United Kingdom/News/News Commentary
Apple Podcasts
#11
Canada/News/News Commentary
Apple Podcasts
#91
Canada/News
Apple Podcasts
#98
United Kingdom/News

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

America’s Cybersecurity Crisis Starts With Software (w/Jen Easterly)
Q: What does Jen Easterly see as the fundamental problem in cybersecurity?
The fundamental problem is poor software quality driven by misaligned incentives, not just a lack of defense; if software is secure by design, many cyber risks are mitigated.
Iran Talks and Trump’s Cuba Strategy w/Ricardo Zúñiga
Q: How did Obama approach Cuba differently, and what can be learned from that for today?
Obama focused on policy that serves Cuban citizens, using engagement and targeted sanctions to create a favorable environment for economic openness, while avoiding regime change; the lesson is that a people-centered approach can create momentum for reform.
Iran Talks and Trump’s Cuba Strategy w/Ricardo Zúñiga
Q: Why is there skepticism about returning to war with Iran?
Because a military confrontation risks paralyzing U.S. readiness, drains resources, and could provoke broader regional instability without guaranteeing a favorable outcome, making other options comparatively more viable.
Iran Talks and Trump’s Cuba Strategy w/Ricardo Zúñiga
Q: What are the president's actual options for Iran as laid out in the memo?
The memo outlines three broad options: walk away from a deal, push for a deal close to the JCPOA with enforcement and verification, or return to some form of renewed coercive pressure or military action, each with significant tradeoffs and political risks.
China’s Engineering State vs. America’s Lawyerly Society (w/Dan Wang)
Q: What is the basic argument of your book about the challenges of a lawyerly society in the United States?
The core idea is that the United States has drifted toward a governance model dominated by lawyers and regulation, which can slow large-scale building and strategic projects, unlike China's engineering state that pushes forward with infrastructure and manufacturing, sometimes at social cost.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

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Frequently Asked Questions About The Long Game

What is The Long Game about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A weekly national security show that translates intelligence into policy for a broad audience. The hosts pull back the curtain on how decisions are made in diplomacy, defense, and intel, often pairing expert guests with rigorous, data-driven debates. Episodes frequently cover Iran, US-China competition, energy security, NATO and European defense, and the mechanics of executive decision-making, including red-team/blue-team exercises to test options. The format tends to blend on-the-record insights from former policymakers with high-profile guests and in-depth analysis, making it a go-to for listeners who want strategic context behind current events and long-range policy implications.

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How many listeners does The Long Game get?

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Which podcasts are similar to The Long Game?

These podcasts share a similar audience with The Long Game:

1. Stay Tuned with Preet
2. On with Kara Swisher
3. Pivot
4. Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
5. Hacks On Tap

How many episodes of The Long Game are there?

The Long Game launched 8 months ago and published 32 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on The Long Game?

Recent guests on The Long Game include:

1. Michael Kofman
2. Ricardo Zúñiga
3. Jen Easterly
4. Dan Wang
5. H.R. McMaster
6. Matt Pottinger
7. John Kerry
8. Ruben Gallego

To view more recent guests and their details, simply upgrade your Rephonic account. You'll also get access to a typical guest profile to help you decide if the show is worth pitching.

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