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The Long Game with Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer

Vox Media Podcast Network
Iran
United States
China
Venezuela
National Security
Greenland
Russia
Taiwan
Trump Administration
Israel
Saudi Arabia
U.s.-China Relations
Ukraine
Donald Trump
Strait Of Hormuz
Iran Nuclear Program
U.S. Foreign Policy
Nicolás Maduro
Winter Olympics
U.S. Military

The Long Game is a weekly national security podcast hosted by Jake Sullivan, President Biden’s National Security Advisor, and Jon Finer, his Principal Deputy—senior aides who sat in on the classified Presidential Daily Brief each morning and translated raw intelligence into policy advice. Each week, Jake and Jon will pull back the curtain on how power really works helping you make sense of the nat... more

PublishesWeeklyEpisodes29Founded7 months ago
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Artwork for The Long Game

Latest Episodes

President Trump is simultaneously pursuing peace talks with Iran while escalating U.S. military pressure in the region following recent strikes. Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer revisit the policy options most likely facing the administration and walk thr... more

President Trump is preparing to sign a major executive order on AI and cybersecurity at a moment of growing concern over cyber threats from China, Russia, Iran, and criminal ransomware gangs.

Jen Easterly, former Director of the Cybersecurity and In... more

President Trump heads to Beijing for a high-stakes summit with Xi Jinping at a moment of growing instability in the Middle East and rising anxiety across Asia.

In this episode, former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell joins Jake Sullivan ... more

Iran war developments, including new signs of a potential deal, UAE’s withdrawal from OPEC, and what weeks of conflict have revealed about U.S. leverage.

In this episode, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer discuss:

- Why a deal with Iran may be inevitabl... more

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Recent Guests

Dan Wang
Author of Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future
Stanford Hoover Institution (research fellow)
Episode: China’s Engineering State vs. America’s Lawyerly Society (w/Dan Wang)
H.R. McMaster
Former National Security Advisor, retired Army Lieutenant General
Former Trump Administration
Episode: Debating the War in Iran and U.S. Strategy (w/H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger)
Matt Pottinger
Former Deputy National Security Advisor, former journalist and Marine intelligence officer
Former Trump Administration
Episode: Debating the War in Iran and U.S. Strategy (w/H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger)
John Kerry
Former Secretary of State; longtime diplomat
U.S. government
Episode: John Kerry on Iran, Israel, and Diplomacy
Ruben Gallego
United States Senator from Arizona; former Marine
United States Senate (Arizona)
Episode: "Chasing the Dragon" In Iran (with Sen. Ruben Gallego)
Helima Croft
Head of Global Commodity Strategy at RBC Capital Markets; former CIA analyst
RBC Capital Markets
Episode: The Iran War Energy Crisis Is Here (with Helima Croft)
Danny Citrinowicz
Former IDF Intelligence Unit analyst on Iran (top Iran analyst 2003-2016)
Former IDF Intelligence Unit
Episode: America Doesn’t Understand Iran And It Shows (with Danny Citrinowicz)
Karim Sadjadpour
Iran expert, senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment and Atlantic contributor
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace; The Atlantic
Episode: Iran After Khamenei & Pentagon vs. Anthropic (with Karim Sadjadpour)
Tyler Cowen
Economist, professor at George Mason University, and influential public intellectual
George Mason University
Episode: AI With a Western Soul (with Tyler Cowen)

Hosts

Jake Sullivan
Host of The Long Game
Jon Finer
Co-host of The Long Game

Reviews

4.7 out of 5 stars from 375 ratings
  • Informative and Fabulous!

    I was guided to this podcast when listening to another. I’m incredibly impressed with the conversation and knowledge of these people narrating the storyline and topics concerning the United States and the world writ large.

    Extraordinary stuff! -Thank you.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Susanyb60
    United Statesa month ago
  • So Useful and Needed

    No other way to put it—I love this show. It’s one thing for news reports or people you follow shape your notions on what’s happening to and with our relationships with other countries. It’s quite another to learn how diplomacy is strategized and executed in such a granular way by two guys who are so very good at it. I would also rate this as a nonpartisan show.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Mrliam
    United Statesa month ago
  • So informative

    I really enjoy this podcast. I learn so much from them.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Nank38
    United States2 months ago
  • Out of the park

    Followed this show from the start. Jake and Jon are excellent, researched, respectful. Always interesting but this latest episode with John Kerry was so thoughtful and even hopeful. Thank you for the time you spend putting this together for us. Highly highly recommend.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    frank was taken
    United States2 months ago
  • Kerry interview

    Kerry, Dems, and old Republicans practice diplomacy like intelligent and normal human beings.

    But you guys sounded like you think or hope MAGA will take your advice and practice diplomacy like normal human beings.

    MAGA DNA doesn’t work that way. Might makes right and only intelligent people read.

    The core of Harding’s support, according to Mencken, was “small town yokels, of low political serfs, or morons scarcely able to understand a word of more than two syllables, and wholly unable t... more

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Prometheus---
    United States2 months ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Listeners praise the access to high-profile guests and the long-view policy analysis.
Hosts are well-researched, respectful, and bring insider policy perspective.
The show is informative, substantive, and nonpartisan with deep expertise.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#30
United States/News/News Commentary
Apple Podcasts
#200
United States/News
Apple Podcasts
#31
United Kingdom/News/News Commentary
Apple Podcasts
#33
Canada/News/News Commentary
Apple Podcasts
#211
Canada/News
Apple Podcasts
#233
United Kingdom/News

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

China’s Engineering State vs. America’s Lawyerly Society (w/Dan Wang)
Q: What is the basic argument of your book about the challenges of a lawyerly society in the United States?
The core idea is that the United States has drifted toward a governance model dominated by lawyers and regulation, which can slow large-scale building and strategic projects, unlike China's engineering state that pushes forward with infrastructure and manufacturing, sometimes at social cost.
Debating the War in Iran and U.S. Strategy (w/H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger)
Q: What are your thoughts on whether the regime in Tehran will survive this campaign, and is regime change likely within two years?
They express skepticism about rapid regime change, highlighting that the IRGC-hardened regime may persist, while acknowledging that a resolution could come through a combination of pressure, economic constraints, and internal dynamics rather than a swift external coup.
Debating the War in Iran and U.S. Strategy (w/H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger)
Q: Do you think there will be a diplomatic deal ultimately to resolve this if Iran continues to resist demands?
The guests suggest that a durable diplomatic outcome is possible but challenging, noting that past negotiations interrupted by military action have raised the bar for any deal and that a lasting solution would likely require credible commitments and credible consequences if diplomacy fails.
John Kerry on Iran, Israel, and Diplomacy
Q: What would you tell future diplomats about how to handle such talks with Iran?
Know who you are talking to, show mutual respect, maintain humility about their history, and build a robust verification regime with redundancy to prevent deception, while recognizing that diplomacy is a long-term process with multiple follow-on opportunities beyond a single agreement.
Iran Ceasefire Explained: Winners, Losers, and What Comes Next
Q: What do you think about the assassinations of Iranian leaders and the precedent it sets for world conflict?
They argue that assassinations blur lines with targeted killings and could normalize aggressive conduct, urging a tight interpretation of Reagan-era norms and caution against expanding extraterritorial action.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About The Long Game

What is The Long Game about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A weekly national security show that translates intelligence into policy for a broad audience. The hosts pull back the curtain on how decisions are made in diplomacy, defense, and intel, often pairing expert guests with rigorous, data-driven debates. Episodes frequently cover Iran, US-China competition, energy security, NATO and European defense, and the mechanics of executive decision-making, including red-team/blue-team exercises to test options. The format tends to blend on-the-record insights from former policymakers with high-profile guests and in-depth analysis, making it a go-to for listeners who want strategic context behind current events and long-range policy implications.

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Which podcasts are similar to The Long Game?

These podcasts share a similar audience with The Long Game:

1. Stay Tuned with Preet
2. GZERO World with Ian Bremmer
3. Fareed Zakaria GPS
4. On with Kara Swisher
5. The David Frum Show

How many episodes of The Long Game are there?

The Long Game launched 7 months ago and published 29 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on The Long Game?

Recent guests on The Long Game include:

1. Dan Wang
2. H.R. McMaster
3. Matt Pottinger
4. John Kerry
5. Ruben Gallego
6. Helima Croft
7. Danny Citrinowicz
8. Karim Sadjadpour

To view more recent guests and their details, simply upgrade your Rephonic account. You'll also get access to a typical guest profile to help you decide if the show is worth pitching.

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