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Artwork for Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian Music

Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian Music

Andrew Gill and Leah Payne
Christian Music
Contemporary Christian Music
Christian Rock
DC Talk
Worship Music
Nirvana
Indie Music
Teen Dance Ordinance
Larry Norman
Christian Music Industry
Christian Contemporary Music
Mars Hill Church
Deconstruction
Evangelicalism
Purity Culture
Punk Rock
Music Industry
Kurt Cobain
Politics
Amy Grant

Rock That Doesn’t Roll looks at how Christian music shaped the world we're living in now by telling individual stories from the peak era of the contemporary Christian music industry. In the 80s, 90s and early 2000s CCM grew into a billion dollar business that affected millions of evangelical young people. Through interviews with artists, industry players and average fans Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew ... more

PublishesTwice monthlyEpisodes63Founded3 years ago
Number of ListenersCategories
MusicMusic History

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Artwork for Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian Music

Latest Episodes

Nina Hagen is a true legend. She's considered an icon of German culture. And she's known as "the Godmother of German Punk." But our interview with her revealed that she also should be considered a longtime Jesus Freak. Her latest album, "Highway To H... more

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Tim Dillinger returns to the podcast to continue our examination of 1985 as a pivotal year in Christian music. This time his focus is on artists who tried to break into the Christian industry, including Donna Summer and Maria Muldaur. He also discuss... more

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Rosie Thomas is a singer-songwriter who came up alongside artists like Damien Jurado, Pedro The Lion and Sufjan Stevens. She was one of the first folk artists signed to Sub Pop Records and had a long-running comedic alter ego named Sheila Saputo. Her... more

YouTube

In the late 1990's Andrew Osenga's high school band caught the ear of a member of Whiteheart. That led Osenga to Nashville and his band, The Normals, releasing three albums on ForeFront Records. In the decades since The Normals disbanded, Osenga has ... more

YouTube

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Recent Guests

Rosie Thomas
Singer-songwriter; discussed as guest and central interview subject
Sub Pop; Velour100; Independent artist
Episode: When The Songs Aren't Enough (ft. Rosie Thomas)
Andrew Osenga
Former lead singer of The Normals; multi-talented creator, author, and host of The Pivot
The Normals, ForeFront Records, Caedmon's Call, Anchor Hymns
Episode: The Normals Approach to Christian Music (ft. Andrew Osenga)
Jeremy Alder
Comedian with a background in homeschooling and Christian rock; viral clip creator
Independent comedian
Episode: What's Funny About Failing at Christian Rock? (ft. Jeremy Alder)
Sam Sanders
Journalist and independent podcast host
The Sam Sanders Show / NPR alumni
Episode: Sneaking D'Angelo Riffs Into Worship (ft. Sam Sanders)
Jason Martin
Frontman of the band Starflyer 59
Episode: Jason Martin of Starflyer 59 (From Transmissions with Jason Woodbury)
Big Freedia
Queen of Bounce Music and gospel artist
Episode: Big Freedia: Is Twerking Next to Godliness? (From The Sam Sanders Show)
Daniel Gill
Andrew's brother and returning guest on the show
Episode: The Christmas Special 2025 (ft. Kelsey McGinnis and Daniel Gill)
Kelsey McGinnis
one of the most popular repeat guests
Episode: The Christmas Special 2025 (ft. Kelsey McGinnis and Daniel Gill)
John Darnielle
Lead singer of The Mountain Goats, author and musician.
The Mountain Goats
Episode: John Darnielle of The Mountain Goats on Sound Opinions

Hosts

Andrew Gill
Co-host of Rock That Doesn't Roll, music journalist with deep background in Christian music culture
Leah Payne
Co-host of Rock That Doesn't Roll; author and commentator on Christian music history

Reviews

4.7 out of 5 stars from 255 ratings
  • Good lord david dark

    For a guy who whines so much about capitalism you sure are desperate to sell your book

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    Chaychay3939
    Canada6 months ago
  • Edit: 5 stars

    Great podcast, great people. Enjoy!

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    boxofoddities2
    United States6 months ago
  • Compassionate and cathartic

    I cannot say enough good things about this podcast. I also grew up in the Christian rock sub culture, and was deeply affected by it in many negative and positive ways. I really appreciate that the hosts of this podcast are simultaneously critical and affectionate toward the subculture they are exploring. The interviews are fantastic, and I feel like I get to make friends with the artists that formed me. If I’d known how many Christian artists were grappling with the same questions I was, I might... more

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Kristofer_D
    United States7 months ago
  • Such a great listen

    I love this podcast! It’s very niche, for those of us who grew up in the ccm community (cult?) of the 90s and 2000s, but it’s both nostalgic and healing in many ways.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    BotharMe
    United States9 months ago
  • Subversive

    I started listening to an episode about the Christian punk rock and ska era. I was so excited. It was very interesting and reminiscent. Then halfway through we started sneaking in gender ideology within the church. There’s a lot of subversive messaging in these podcasts. I was disappointed. You could almost tell by the NPR style editing that this was a potential outcome. Highly disappointed. Could’ve been great otherwise. Always sneaking sexual deviancy into Christianity. it should’ve been no sh... more

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    Coinymccoinface
    United Statesa year ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Some listeners wish for more balanced representation of perspectives within evangelical culture.
A thoughtful, well-produced history of CCM that blends nostalgia with critique.
Interviews are deep and emotionally resonant, often sparking personal connections to the era.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

What's Funny About Failing at Christian Rock? (ft. Jeremy Alder)
Q: Do you think there was anything about your upbringing that made you especially prepared to be on stage?
Alder points to a church environment that valued performance, plus early theater and youth group experiences; later, in comedy, he recognized performance as a craft rather than a moral failing, and he used those roots to shape a stage persona that feels authentic yet deliberate.
The Reverse CCM Crossovers of 1985 (ft. Tim Dillinger)
Q: What made 1985 such a turning point for CCM's relationship with secular music?
The year marked CCM's expansion beyond church walls into mainstream media and retail, with high-profile artists crossing over, major label distribution deals, and national TV exposure that brought scrutiny and opportunities in equal measure.
When The Songs Aren't Enough (ft. Rosie Thomas)
Q: What was it like navigating a male-dominated indie scene and balancing artistry with personal life?
Rosie explains using her theatrical stage presence and humor to connect with audiences, and describes how motherhood prompted a shift toward storytelling-focused performances, blending songs with personal narrative to remain authentic and sustainable.
When The Songs Aren't Enough (ft. Rosie Thomas)
Q: How did Rosie get involved with Velour100 and what led to the Sub Pop opportunity?
Rosie recounts auditioning for Velour100, meeting Damien Jurado, and forming strong bonds with the Seattle indie scene. A chance encounter with Sub Pop founder Jonathan Poneman after a show led to an offer to record and eventually sign a deal, transforming her career.
When The Songs Aren't Enough (ft. Rosie Thomas)
Q: What was Rosie Thomas's childhood like and how did religion and music intersect in her upbringing?
Rosie describes a music-loving, blue-collar family life in Livonia near Detroit, growing up with parents who were musicians. She discusses early exposure to diverse music, a Presbyterian upbringing, and the later shift toward faith during late teens, which influenced her path toward theater and music.

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Frequently Asked Questions About This Podcast

What is This Podcast about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A deep, archival look at contemporary Christian music through personal stories and industry perspectives from the 80s to the early 2000s. Episodes weave interviews with artists, critics, and fans to trace how CCM shaped culture, politics, and identity within evangelical communities, often mixing nostalgia with critical insight. Expect candid anecdotes, robust music history, and thoughtful discussions about purity culture, conservatism, and the evolving relationship between faith and mainstream culture. A strong fit for listeners who want both context and storytelling, with occasional humor and nuanced critique of a subculture that remains influential today.

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These podcasts share a similar audience with this podcast:

1. The Tim & April Show
2. The Bulletin
3. The Holy Post
4. Sound Opinions
5. Homebrewed Christianity

How many episodes of this podcast are there?

this podcast launched 3 years ago and published 63 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on this podcast?

Recent guests on this podcast include:

1. Rosie Thomas
2. Andrew Osenga
3. Jeremy Alder
4. Sam Sanders
5. Jason Martin
6. Big Freedia
7. Daniel Gill
8. Kelsey McGinnis

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