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Artwork for Messy Social Work

Messy Social Work

Rich and Tim
Social Work
Child Protection
Kinship Care
Community Engagement
Mental Health
Relational Activism
Trauma
Lived Experience
Family Group Conference
Community Support
Adoption
Foster Care
Child Welfare
Meditation
Family Group Conferencing
Parenting
Poverty
Participation
Children's Rights
Domestic Abuse

Messy Social Work is a podcast for social workers, leaders, students and anyone interested in helping people navigate life's toughest challenges.

Hosted by Rich Devine and Tim Fisher, the podcast explores child protection, systemic practice, relationships, leadership, trauma, family support and the realities of frontline social work.

Each week, we speak with leading thinkers, practitioners, rese... more

PublishesWeeklyEpisodes124Founded4 years ago
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Social SciencesScience

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Artwork for Messy Social Work

Latest Episodes

What is social work really for?

In this special episode, Rich and Tim sit down with Dr Beverly Barnett-Jones MBE, one of the most influential voices in British social work, for a conversation that spans personal history, political activism, healing,... more

In this special 100th episode of The Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich Devine and Tim Fisher hit pause to reflect on the journey so far. Armed with a list of 100 AI-generated questions inspired by their previous episodes, they take each other on a whis... more

In this episode of This Is Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim are joined once again by care-experienced advocate, project worker and Churchill Fellow, Terri-Anne Hamer.

Terri-Anne shares insights from her Churchill Fellowship research exploring how we ... more

What difference can one consistent relationship make in a young person's life?

In this moving and deeply honest episode, Rich and Tim are joined by care leaver Shakira Peart and her Personal Advisor Sarah Fisher. Together, they reflect on a seven-ye... more

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Recent Guests

Shakira Peart
Care leaver who spoke about her life and autism
Self/Care Leaver
Episode: "I call her my second mum" The extraordinary relationship between care leaver Shakira and her Personal Advisor, Sarah.
Sarah Fisher
Personal Advisor who supported Shakira and many other care leavers
Local Authority/Child Welfare
Episode: "I call her my second mum" The extraordinary relationship between care leaver Shakira and her Personal Advisor, Sarah.
Gemma Chapman
Junior barrister renowned for family law expertise
Hair Court Chambers (formerly One Hair Court)
Episode: What social workers get wrong in court: Insights from family barrister Gemma Chapman
Neil Woods
Former undercover police officer and bestselling author
Author of Good Cop, Bad War; The Drugs War
Episode: Ex-undercover police officer on why the war on drugs is failing
Gareth K Thomas
Foster carer, founder of Trauma Space
Trauma Space
Episode: Gareth K Thomas, foster carer, on trauma informed parenting
Rose Byrne
Social worker, kinship carer
Kinship Care / Social Services
Episode: Rose Byrne on her upbringing, caring for her sister and being diagnosed with ADHD
Madeleine McCormack
Social Worker on frontline in safeguarding/child protection
Unknown (guest on episode)
Episode: Maddy McCormack (Social Worker) on the realities of Child Protection Social Work
Sharon Shoesmith
Former Director of Children's Services, London Borough of Haringey
Former Director of Children's Services, Haringey
Episode: Sharon Shoesmith about Baby P, blame and learning from tragedies
Natasha Dube
Social Work student
Social work student at time of recording
Episode: An introduction to Systemic Ideas in Social Work with student Natasha Dube and author Liz Bosanquet

Hosts

Richard Devine
Host of Messy Social Work; Relational Activism and social work practitioner
Tim Fisher
Co-host and engaging moderator guiding conversations on social work practice and systems

Reviews

4.9 out of 5 stars from 59 ratings
  • Raw and honest.

    Really enjoy these podcasts.The learning and the reflections result in growth and the desire to be better.

    Apple Podcasts
    4
    Life is tricky
    Australia3 months ago
  • So glad you’re both back for 2026

    There is nothing better than raw honesty and I loved listening to your reflections in this episode, I love the commitment to ‘space’, and I hope you find it (and selfishly hope that the podcast will continue to exist in between the spaciousness). It’s such an amazing resource and the balance between your lovely friendship, social work chats and reflections is ideal for anyone with an interest in the sector.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    bookish2543
    United Kingdom9 months ago
  • Weaponising empathy and professional curiosity

    Words fail to describe my feelings about this episode. I listened today to Lads like Us , and Danny and Mike are inspirational. I have already passed on the episode with others (including to a friend who was interacting with a distraught child yesterday in out of school education) to share the wealth of wisdom, experience and insight. I will continue to share to motivate and inspire others. Thank you Rich, Mike and Danny…you are amazing, brilliant individuals.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Ulongtime
    United Kingdom2 years ago
  • Learning so much from all of these podcasts

    Absolutely recommend

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Noralene
    United Kingdom3 years ago
  • Excellent podcasts

    Really great podcast! I learned a lot, especially from the authority and power in child protection podcast. This podcast was actually the jumping board for my capstone work. Thank you

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Mharsbarrr
    Australia3 years ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

The discussions provoke thoughtful, sometimes challenging, conversations about social work leadership and policy.
Listeners praise raw honesty and practical reflections that feel real and actionable.
Reviewers highlight the accessibility of complex topics and the show's empathetic approach to difficult cases.
The show is described as a valuable resource for social workers and students.
Guests bring wisdom and tangible insights that enrich professional practice.
Fans note the show's focus on systems-level thinking and humane approaches to safeguarding.
Audience feedback emphasizes the podcast as a trustworthy, candid resource for ongoing professional growth.
Many appreciate the blend of personal narrative and evidence-based practice.
Listeners value the mix of lived experience, scholarship, and practical tools.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

What social workers get wrong in court: Insights from family barrister Gemma Chapman
Q: What makes for strong written social work evidence templates?
Templates should be thorough, balanced, and open to identify both strengths and weaknesses, with clear indication of gaps requiring further investigation, ensuring the court can see a fully considered assessment.
What social workers get wrong in court: Insights from family barrister Gemma Chapman
Q: Could you share how you view the difference between a disclosure and an allegation in these cases?
An allegation is a neutral statement of fact by a child, while a disclosure is loaded with the presumption that the child is telling the truth. Social workers should stay open-minded, not treat disclosures as facts, and avoid leading the child.
Rose Byrne on her upbringing, caring for her sister and being diagnosed with ADHD
Q: Could you tell us how old you were when you trained to be a social worker, and what was your motivation to become one?
I started training straight out of my undergraduate degree, around 21, after working in domiciliary care. I initially pursued sociology and social policy and then moved into a masters with support from colleagues who encouraged that path; my motivation stemmed from a desire to work with people and help them navigate challenging circumstances, especially given my own kinship care background.
Professor Jonathan Scourfield on what the largest-ever Family Group Conference study reveals
Q: What were the main findings about participation quality and outcomes?
Participation quality did influence some outcomes, notably family satisfaction and, in the longer term, adult well-being, but effects varied across measures and were not universal across all outcomes.
Professor Jonathan Scourfield on what the largest-ever Family Group Conference study reveals
Q: Why publish a pre-print rather than a full peer-reviewed article yet?
Pre-prints enable rapid sharing of results, allow early scrutiny, and reflect timely interest in the evolving legal context around family group decision making in England.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

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Frequently Asked Questions About Messy Social Work

What is Messy Social Work about and what kind of topics does it cover?

This show centers on the realities, ethics, and systems shaping frontline social work, with a strong emphasis on child protection, kinship care, trauma-informed practice, and leadership. Conversations weave lived experience with academic and practitioner perspectives, offering practical strategies, critical policy discussions, and candid reflections on burnout, supervision, and systemic change. Noteworthy are the guest lineups—practitioners, researchers, and people with lived experience—who illuminate how theory translates into everyday practice, how power and blame evolve in public discourse, and how teams and communities can sustain humane, effective support for families.

Where can I find podcast stats for Messy Social Work?

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How many listeners does Messy Social Work get?

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What are the audience demographics for Messy Social Work?

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How many subscribers and views does Messy Social Work have?

To see how many followers or subscribers Messy Social Work has on Spotify and other platforms such as Castbox and Podcast Addict, simply upgrade your account. You'll also find viewership figures for their YouTube channel if they have one.

Which podcasts are similar to Messy Social Work?

These podcasts share a similar audience with Messy Social Work:

1. Happy Place
2. We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson
3. Miss Me?
4. Great Company with Jamie Laing
5. My Therapist Ghosted Me

How many episodes of Messy Social Work are there?

Messy Social Work launched 4 years ago and published 124 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

How do I contact Messy Social Work?

Our systems regularly scour the web to find email addresses and social media links for this podcast. We scanned the web and collated all of the contact information that we could find in our podcast database. But in the unlikely event that you can't find what you're looking for, our concierge service lets you request our research team to source better contacts for you.

Where can I see ratings and reviews for Messy Social Work?

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What guests have appeared on Messy Social Work?

Recent guests on Messy Social Work include:

1. Shakira Peart
2. Sarah Fisher
3. Gemma Chapman
4. Neil Woods
5. Gareth K Thomas
6. Rose Byrne
7. Madeleine McCormack
8. Sharon Shoesmith

To view more recent guests and their details, simply upgrade your Rephonic account. You'll also get access to a typical guest profile to help you decide if the show is worth pitching.

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