Messy Social Work

Social Work

Child Protection

Family Group Conference

Relational Activism

Community Support

Kinship Care

Parenting Assessments

Parental Engagement

Social Work Analysis

Care Experience

Mental Health

Class Identity

New Zealand

Interpersonal Relationships

Lived Experience

Motivational Interviewing

Community Engagement

Domestic Abuse

Maya Angelou

Social Work Practice

Welcome to the Messy Social Work podcast. The hosts are Richard Devine and Tim Fisher. Check out our website here: www.relationalactivism.com/

55 ratings

Publishes	Weekly	Episodes	96	Founded	3 years ago
Number of Listeners		Categories	Social SciencesScience

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Guests Hosts Reviews Charts Talking Points

Latest Episodes

Rich and Tim on practice lessons from the tragic death of Sara Shariff

Relational Activism: www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fish... more

13 Mar 2026 • 1 hr 15 min

Rich and Tim speak to Ethan St Pierre about trauma tourism, alongside a news roundup from Mithran Samuel (CC)

Connect with Ethan here:

www.linkedin.com/in/ethan-st-pierre-bb58403ab/

Relational Activism: www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-... more

6 Mar 2026 • 1 hr 5 min

Rich and Tim speak to Ethan St Pierre about growing up in care, addiction and being reborn in a cemetery

Connect with Ethan here:

www.linkedin.com/in/ethan-st-pierre-bb58403ab/

Relational Activism: www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-... more

27 Feb 2026 • 1 hr 5 min

Rich and Tim talk to Mark Hopfenbeck about the transformative possibilities of Open Dialogue.

In this conversation, Rich and Tim and Mark Hopfenbeck explore the concept of Open Dialogue, its origins, and its application in mental health and social work. They discuss the importance of community involvement, the need for continuity in care, and... more

20 Feb 2026 • 1 hr 2 min

Key Facts

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Number of Listeners

Find out how many people listen to this podcast per episode and each month.

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Recent Guests

Ethan St Pierre

Care-experienced individual with lived experience of foster care, addiction, and recovery

Independent speaker / trainer on trauma-informed practice

Episode: Rich and Tim speak to Ethan St Pierre about growing up in care, addiction and being reborn in a cemetery

Mark Hopfenbeck

Open Dialogue trainer and international ambassador; head of training at the Open Dialogue Centre in Melbourne

Open Dialogue Centre, Melbourne

Episode: Rich and Tim talk to Mark Hopfenbeck about the transformative possibilities of Open Dialogue.

Mina Fazel

Professor of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry at Oxford University

University of Oxford (Department of Psychiatry)

Episode: Connecting Research: Why young people don't access mental health support

Seana McDermott

Child in care social worker

Bath and North East Somerset

Episode: Rich and Tim talk to Seana McDermott (Social Worker for Children in Care) about relational practice, moral injury and making a difference

Anna Harvey

Senior clinical lecturer at Tavistock and Portman; expert on psychoanalysis in social work

Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust

Episode: Rich and Tim hear about handstands, breakdance battles, and the unconscious: Dr Anna Harvey on what shapes social work

Dr. Anna Harvey

Senior clinical lecturer in social work and social care at Tavistock and Portman; expert in child protection; professional doctorate contributor

Tavistock and Portman

Episode: Rich and Tim speak to Dr Anna Harvey about fear loneliness and joy in social work

Mithran Samuels

Editor of Community Care

Community Care

Episode: Rich and Tim return to talk boundaries, creating space and big changes ahead

Donald Forrester

Professor at Cascade in Cardiff and author

Cascade, Cardiff

Episode: Rich and Tim speak to Prof Donald Forrester about Nanny McPhee, baseball bats and the heart of social work (rights?!)

Charlotte Clark

Child Protection Social Worker, graduate of the Frontline graduate scheme

Bains and North East Somerset

Episode: Rich and Tim speak to Charlotte Clark (Child Protection Social Worker) about trust, power and relationships

Hosts

Richard Devine

Social worker with 15 years' experience in child protection; co-host of the Messy Social Work podcast.

Tim Fisher

Social worker passionate about participation and community; co-host of the Messy Social Work podcast.

Reviews

4.9 out of 5 stars from 55 ratings

So glad you’re both back for 2026
There is nothing better than raw honesty and I loved listening to your reflections in this episode, I love the commitment to ‘space’, and I hope you find it (and selfishly hope that the podcast will continue to exist in between the spaciousness). It’s such an amazing resource and the balance between your lovely friendship, social work chats and reflections is ideal for anyone with an interest in the sector.
Apple Podcasts
5
bookish2543
United Kingdom2 months ago
Weaponising empathy and professional curiosity
Words fail to describe my feelings about this episode. I listened today to Lads like Us , and Danny and Mike are inspirational. I have already passed on the episode with others (including to a friend who was interacting with a distraught child yesterday in out of school education) to share the wealth of wisdom, experience and insight. I will continue to share to motivate and inspire others. Thank you Rich, Mike and Danny…you are amazing, brilliant individuals.
Apple Podcasts
5
Ulongtime
United Kingdoma year ago
Learning so much from all of these podcasts
Absolutely recommend
Apple Podcasts
5
Noralene
United Kingdom2 years ago
Excellent podcasts
Really great podcast! I learned a lot, especially from the authority and power in child protection podcast. This podcast was actually the jumping board for my capstone work. Thank you
Apple Podcasts
5
Mharsbarrr
Australia3 years ago
Always provokes learning
Qualified in Sept 22 with 14+ years past experience of working with people in various statutory and voluntary roles, and this podcast still prompts new thoughts.
Please can you consider doing something around ‘home conditions’ the challenges of quantifying, challenging parents and drawing the line.
Great work.
Chris
Apple Podcasts
5
Redman101986
United Kingdom3 years ago

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Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Listeners express appreciation for the open and honest discussions around complex social work issues.

The hosts receive commendation for their relatable personal stories that resonate with the audience's experiences.

Many find the podcast engaging and thought-provoking, often provoking new insights into their own practice.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts	#89	United States/Science/Social Sciences
Apple Podcasts	#26	United Kingdom/Science/Social Sciences
Apple Podcasts	#52	Canada/Science/Social Sciences
Apple Podcasts	#178	United Kingdom/Science
Apple Podcasts	#23	Australia/Science/Social Sciences
Apple Podcasts	#174	Australia/Science

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Rich and Tim wrap up the year in conversation with Andrew Turnell

Q: What biggest change have you seen in how you've worked from one context to another this year?

A shift toward writing and documenting practice, and integrating the personal with professional life as a core part of professional identity and day-to-day work.

Rich and Tim talk to Mark Hopfenbeck about the transformative possibilities of Open Dialogue.

Q: Could you give us the sketch on the beginnings of Open Dialogue and how Tornio in Finland contributed to its development?

Mark explains that Open Dialogue began in a small community in Tornio, Finland, emerging from need-adapted mental health reform and a process of asking consumers and carers what worked. It evolved through collaboration with Norwegian colleagues and the idea of including the patient and their social network in all decisions, with a shift toward transparency and lifelong relationships.

Rich and Tim talk to Seana McDermott (Social Worker for Children in Care) about relational practice, moral injury and making a difference

Q: How do you handle the emotional weight of this work, such as moral distress or seeing children in distress?

I rely on peer support, reflective spaces, and self-care, and I acknowledge that feelings of powerlessness can occur, while staying focused on the child's voice and ongoing connections.

Rich and Tim talk to Seana McDermott (Social Worker for Children in Care) about relational practice, moral injury and making a difference

Q: What contributes most to a stable placement for a child in care?

Consistency, ongoing relationship-building over time, and embedding trauma-informed approaches with carers and wider networks to support the child's sense of security.

Rich and Tim talk to Seana McDermott (Social Worker for Children in Care) about relational practice, moral injury and making a difference

Q: How would you describe your role to another professional?

I coordinate long-term, child-led care planning, advocate for children's rights, and facilitate connections to family while promoting safety and embedding relational practice in multi-agency work.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

Listeners per Episode
Gender Skew
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Frequently Asked Questions About Messy Social Work

What is Messy Social Work about and what kind of topics does it cover?

Discussions center around the intricacies and challenges of social work, with a strong emphasis on child protection, kinship care, and the significance of relationships within social work practices. Unique elements include guest expertise in radical social work and systemic change, as well as personal reflections from the hosts about their experiences in the field. Episodes frequently tackle contemporary issues in social work, including the impact of trauma, community engagement, and the ethical implications of lived experience narratives. This podcast is particularly valuable for professionals in the social work field, students pursuing social work careers, and anyone interested in current themes and critiques surrounding social justice an... more

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Which podcasts are similar to Messy Social Work?

These podcasts share a similar audience with Messy Social Work:

1. Social Work Sorted with Vicki Shevlin
2. Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware
3. The Archers
4. The News Agents
5. What Now? with Trevor Noah

How many episodes of Messy Social Work are there?

Messy Social Work launched 3 years ago and published 96 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Messy Social Work?

Recent guests on Messy Social Work include:

1. Ethan St Pierre
2. Mark Hopfenbeck
3. Mina Fazel
4. Seana McDermott
5. Anna Harvey
6. Dr. Anna Harvey
7. Mithran Samuels
8. Donald Forrester

To view more recent guests and their details, simply upgrade your Rephonic account. You'll also get access to a typical guest profile to help you decide if the show is worth pitching.

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