Rephonic
Artwork for No Way Out
John Boyd
Psychedelics
OODA Loop
PTSD
LSD
Norman Ohler
Human-Centered Design
Alzheimer's Disease
Militaray Reformers
Complexity Theory
Mental Health Crisis
Competitive Prototyping
Risk Management
Agile Methodologies
Neuroscience
Liberating Structures
Braintap
Nazi Germany
CIA
F-16

Welcome to the No Way Out podcast where we examine the variety of domains and disciplines behind John R. Boyd’s OODA sketch and why, today, more than ever, it is an imperative to understand Boyd’s axiomatic sketch of how organisms, individuals, teams, corporations, and governments comprehend, shape, and adapt in our VUCA world.

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Artwork for No Way Out

Latest Episodes

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Momentum favors those who move first. We sit down with Lou Hayes to trace how real-time crime centers (RTCC) rooftop drones, and secure collaboration tools are compressing response times from minutes to seconds—and what that means on ... more

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Ponch and Moose connect with Brent Sadler, a retired U.S. Navy Captain and Senior Fellow at the Heritage Foundation, discussing maritime strategy, U.S.-China relations, and naval power in the Indo-Pacific. 

Sadler reflects on his col... more

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What if the web didn’t just host pages—it hosted intelligence? We sit down with Dan Mapes, director of the Spatial Web Foundation and co-founder of Verses AI, to unpack how a shared protocol, digital twins, and Active Inference could ... more

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The story starts with a hard correction: observation isn’t enough—orientation wins. 

A Marine who grew up in Pakistan and rose through the Corps brings a view you do not get in a briefing book. LtCol Asad “Genghis” Khan, USMC (ret) t... more

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Recent Guests

Brent Sadler
Retired U.S. Navy Captain and strategic thinker
Heritage Foundation
Episode: Naval Power in Action with CAPT Brent Sadler, USN (Ret.)
Dan Mapes
Director of the Spatial Web Foundation and Founder of Verses AI
Spatial Web Foundation, Verses AI
Episode: Beyond LLMs: The Spatial Web, World Models, and Active Inference with Dan Mapes
Warren Mansell
Professor of Mental Health at the Enable Institute at Curtin University
Curtin University
Episode: Military Hardware to Mental Health: Perceptual Control Theory with Warren Mansell, PhD
Dr. Julia Mossbridge
Expert in telepathy, consciousness, and cognitive neuroscience
Episode: Autism, Telepathy and New "Outside" Information with Dr. Julia Mossbridge
Dan Pederson
Former Captain of the U.S. Navy and one of the founders of the Topgun Fighter Weapons School.
Episode: TOPGUN vs. Major Boyd: Humans Over Algorithms with CAPT Dan Pederson
Mahault Albarracin
Director of Research Strategy and researcher in artificial intelligence
Episode: AI’s D&C Cycles Accelerate: Harmonizing Agents and The Big 'O’rientation with Mahault Albarracin, PhD
Dr. David Bray
Expert in active inference AI and former member of the Bioterrorism Preparedness Response Program
Stimson Center
Episode: Human-Agent Team of Teams: Active Inference AI & The Spatial Web w/ Dr. David Bray and Denise Holt
Denise Holt
Founder of Learning Lab Central and advocate for active inference and decentralization in AI
Episode: Human-Agent Team of Teams: Active Inference AI & The Spatial Web w/ Dr. David Bray and Denise Holt
Todd Conklin
Professor and expert in Human and Organizational Performance
Episode: Reorienting Safety: Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) with Todd Conklin

Hosts

Mark McGrath
Brian Ponch Rivera

Reviews

4.7 out of 5 stars from 69 ratings
  • Too much politics

    What previously was a great podcast has degraded into politics and trumpism.

    Apple Podcasts
    2
    Christian Fredriksson
    Sweden8 months ago
  • Horrible

    Andrew mcluhan... horrible... just talks garbage.... terrible

    Sorry for the rating

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    No11111166666
    United Statesa year ago
  • Interesting and Informative

    Great topics and diverse guests always with a tie-in to Boyd’s OODA loop and how that can help you be better at whatever you do.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    mdbelmo
    United Statesa year ago
  • Really thought provoking, excellent guests

    I like it a lot

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Barks787
    Australiaa year ago
  • Insightful and Thought provoking

    Love the show! Insightful and thought provoking.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    cBass-2
    United Statesa year ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Listeners appreciate the thought-provoking discussions featuring diverse experts.
There are critiques regarding political content, with some finding it less relevant.
Reflects positively on the alignment of concepts discussed with personal and professional growth.

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Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Beyond LLMs: The Spatial Web, World Models, and Active Inference with Dan Mapes
Q: How would we do that mathematically?
Through the development of the free energy principle and understanding active inference intelligence, mathematicians can model these interactions for real-time analysis and responses.
Beyond LLMs: The Spatial Web, World Models, and Active Inference with Dan Mapes
Q: So, what is all this stuff?
The transition into an intelligence age is marked by great changes, moving from industrial processes to a network where every building can interact, thus creating smart cities and advanced data management systems.
AI’s D&C Cycles Accelerate: Harmonizing Agents and The Big 'O’rientation with Mahault Albarracin, PhD
Q: Can you talk a little bit about that?
Mahault discusses her agreement with Gary Marcus's vision that scaling forever in AI is not the right approach.
Outmaneuver Complexity: AI Gold Rush 2.0 & Adaptive Capacity with David Woods, PhD
Q: How do you prepare for human agent teaming with AGI in the future, and what are the tools and techniques that you recommend leaders use now?
We need to develop a repertoire of techniques to enhance adaptive capacity and encourage organizations to invest in them.
Championing Change: Diversity, Inclusion, and Leadership in the Navy with Theresa Carpenter
Q: How has the emphasis on diversity, equity, and inclusion affected perceptions of meritocracy in the military?
Some believe that diversity initiatives can overshadow merit, leading to doubts about qualifications and promotions.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

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Frequently Asked Questions About No Way Out

What is No Way Out about and what kind of topics does it cover?

Focused on the intricacies of decision-making and performance in high-pressure environments, this podcast explores various concepts related to John R. Boyd's OODA Loop framework. Episodes delve into themes such as artificial intelligence, organizational safety, human performance, and adaptive strategies, often featuring insightful discussions with experts from diverse backgrounds, including military, healthcare, and technology sectors. Noteworthy is the commitment to intertwining academic theories with practical applications, aiming to enhance listeners' understanding of complex systems and improve decision-making skills in volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous (VUCA) environments.

Listeners can expect a blend of thought-provoking id... more

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These podcasts share a similar audience with No Way Out:

1. School of War
2. Modern War Institute
3. Irregular Warfare Podcast
4. NatSec Matters
5. 10% Happier with Dan Harris

How many episodes of No Way Out are there?

No Way Out launched 3 years ago and published 132 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on No Way Out?

Recent guests on No Way Out include:

1. Brent Sadler
2. Dan Mapes
3. Warren Mansell
4. Dr. Julia Mossbridge
5. Dan Pederson
6. Mahault Albarracin
7. Dr. David Bray
8. Denise Holt

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