Rephonic
Artwork for Face-Off
China
United States
U.s.-China Relations
Xi Jinping
Taiwan
Nuclear Weapons
Artificial Intelligence
Russia
Cold War
Trade War
National Security
Richard Nixon
Geopolitical Competition
South China Sea
On the Beach
Jake Sullivan
Papua New Guinea
Tiananmen Square
Espionage
Donald Trump

The nuclear age began in secrecy and scientific ambition. The story is familiar, but its implications have never left us. A bomb created in a moment of wartime urgency became the foundation of a global order defined by terror and deterrence. But what happens when that global order breaks down? Face-Off: Nuclear Anarchy is an 8-part series tracing the arc of nuclear danger from the Manhattan Projec... more

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Artwork for Face-Off

Latest Episodes

There was a time when the nuclear powers did more than posture. During the era of arms control, the White House, Kremlin, and State Department built frameworks to slow the arms race and reduce the chance of catastrophe. The process was imperfect and ... more

Jane Perlez reports on the thirteen most dangerous days in human history, when the world came closer to nuclear annihilation than ever before or since: the Cuban Missile Crisis. In October 1962, a Soviet submarine trapped under the Atlantic with a nu... more

The nuclear age began in fear, secrecy, and scientific ambition. The bomb created in a moment of wartime urgency became the foundation of a new global order defined by terror and deterrence. The story is familiar, but its implications have never left... more

For the first time in half a century, the world is drifting into a nuclear era with fewer constraints and more danger. The old arms control architecture is gone. The United States is modernizing its arsenal, Russia is making explicit nuclear threats,... more

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Recent Guests

Fredrik Logevall
Pulitzer Prize-winning historian and biographer of President John F. Kennedy
Episode: Thirteen Days on the Brink
Matthew Bunn
Professor at Harvard Kennedy School and leader of the Managing the Atom Project
Harvard Kennedy School
Episode: Thirteen Days on the Brink
Alex Wellerstein
Nuclear historian, researcher at Sciences Po and professor at Stevens Institute of Technology
Sciences Po; Stevens Institute of Technology
Episode: The Race to Build the Bomb
Keiko Ogura
Survivor sharing experiences from Hiroshima
Hiroshima survivor testimony
Episode: The Race to Build the Bomb
David Sanger
National Security Correspondent, The New York Times
The New York Times
Episode: The New Nuclear Age
Jody Allen
Philanthropist, businesswoman, conservationist; owner of the Seattle Seahawks
Daughters for Earth / Allen family
Episode: Introducing Foreign Policy's The Hidden Economics of Remarkable Women
Moreangels Mbizah
Founder and executive director of Wildlife Conservation Action (Zimbabwe)
Wildlife Conservation Action
Episode: Introducing Foreign Policy's The Hidden Economics of Remarkable Women
Shivani Bhalla
Co-founder of Ewaso Lions (Kenya)
Ewaso Lions
Episode: Introducing Foreign Policy's The Hidden Economics of Remarkable Women
Nicholas Burns
Former U.S. ambassador to China under President Biden
U.S. Department of State
Episode: Trump’s War, Xi’s Opportunity: Ambassador Nicholas Burns on Iran’s Hot War

Hosts

Jane Perlez
Pulitzer Prize‑winning journalist and longtime foreign correspondent; co‑host focusing on China policy and U.S.–China relations; affiliated with Harvard Kennedy School.
Rana Mitter
Professor of modern China and U.S.–Asia relations; co‑host providing academic and historical context to geopolitical topics.

Reviews

4.7 out of 5 stars from 397 ratings
  • Old Chestnuts

    I nearly went crazy listening to self-proclaimed China Hawk Nick Burns in the last episode of Series 3. All the more infuriating as Jane constantly chimed in her agreement to each hawkish observation. A couple of years ago I walked out of a Burns Ambassador’s briefing in Shanghai; this guy does the bilateral relationship more harm than good. I’m dropping Face-Off from my feed. Good bye.

    Apple Podcasts
    1
    I'm In China
    Australia6 months ago
  • Very informative

    Great show. Loved the episode with Jake Sullivan. Small NB: PNG is not off the northwest coast of Australia, it is off the northeast coast. And ‘rugby’ is never used to refer to rugby league (the preferred code in PNG). ‘Rugby’ always means rugby union, the favoured code in most of the rest of the Pacific.

    Apple Podcasts
    4
    Darth Porkus
    Australia7 months ago
  • Binge it!

    I am flying through this show. Some episodes are better than others but every one has a nugget of new insight. She is honest and forthright. That style is needed more often these days.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    lrhhrl
    United States9 months ago
  • Jane Perez is so Biased it’s Laughable

    When Jane interviewed Da Wei you could tell she was dying for him to trash Trump for gutting Voice of America and Radio Free Asia, and for shutting down USAID. She was so disappointed when he didn’t. She then tried to get Rana to agree with her, but he actually sided with Da Wei. Hahaha! Jane is what a journalist shouldn’t be. Also when she interviewed Jake Sullivan, a man who radiated nothing but small d!ck energy every time he met with his Chinese counterparts, Jane lobbed nothing but softball... more

    Apple Podcasts
    2
    Htylvr
    United States9 months ago
  • Behind the headlines

    Whilst there are many U.S. - China podcasts out there that will keep you up to do date on the day-to-day, this is one you need to listen to in order to understand the structural forces which shape the relationship over the long term.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    JCA Syd
    Australia10 months ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Insightful, nuanced analysis of U.S.–China relations with strong guest lineups
Strong guest diversity adds credibility and breadth to discussions
Hosts push for deep, long‑term context over surface‑level takes
Occasional criticisms call for more balanced questioning and less perceived hawkish bias

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#107
Finland/News
Apple Podcasts
#155
Norway/News
Apple Podcasts
#172
Argentina/News

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Thirteen Days on the Brink
Q: So what should we learn today?
Bunn says not to back a nuclear adversary into a corner and to seek compromises that defend vital interests while reducing tensions.
Thirteen Days on the Brink
Q: What actually happens if we do that?
Logevall says an invasion could have led to Soviet tactical nuclear weapons being used against U.S. troops or to escalation against a vulnerable Western target such as West Berlin.
The Race to Build the Bomb
Q: How did the Szilard Petition influence subsequent discussions on using the bomb?
The Szilard Petition amplified moral concerns about civilian casualties and argued against using the weapon on a city, though it failed to reach the President and ultimately did not alter the decision to proceed with deployment.
The Race to Build the Bomb
Q: Tell us about the secrecy and how that was enforced and what effect that had on this phenomenal community.
Secrecy was enforced through compartmentalization, monitoring of communications, and an autonomous military intelligence effort (G2) that tracked leaks; yet Los Alamos relaxed some restrictions to enable necessary cross-collaboration, illustrating the tension between security and innovative coordination.
The New Nuclear Age
Q: What changed in late 2022 that altered how strategists view the risk of nuclear use in a conventional war?
Russia's threats against Ukraine introduced a scenario where a major power contemplates using tactical nuclear weapons in a non-nuclear state, which shifts perceptions about thresholds and escalatory paths, making it harder to guarantee a contained outcome without escalation into a broader conflict.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

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Frequently Asked Questions About Face-Off

What is Face-Off about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A deep, issue-driven program focused on the U.S.–China relationship, global geopolitics, and the strategic incentives shaping policy decisions. Episodes pair veteran journalists with diverse guests—diplomats, scholars, journalists, and policy experts—to unpack long‑term structural forces, security dynamics, technology competition, and regional flashpoints from Taiwan to the Middle East. The show stands out for its authoritative interviews, willingness to challenge guests, and a consistent emphasis on how geopolitics, economics, and culture intersect on the world stage. This mix helps listeners—policymakers, executives, and researchers—understand not just current events but the underlying forces guiding international relations and technology... more

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Which podcasts are similar to Face-Off?

These podcasts share a similar audience with Face-Off:

1. ChinaPower
2. Pekingology
3. The Foreign Affairs Interview
4. Sinica Podcast
5. China Insider

How many episodes of Face-Off are there?

Face-Off launched 3 years ago and published 45 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on Face-Off?

Recent guests on Face-Off include:

1. Fredrik Logevall
2. Matthew Bunn
3. Alex Wellerstein
4. Keiko Ogura
5. David Sanger
6. Jody Allen
7. Moreangels Mbizah
8. Shivani Bhalla

To view more recent guests and their details, simply upgrade your Rephonic account. You'll also get access to a typical guest profile to help you decide if the show is worth pitching.

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