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An exploration of the creative life, lived in the in-between.

A sanctuary for the creative spirit in a results-obsessed world.

Moving beyond the highlight reel, hosts and working musicians Aaron Shafer-Haiss and Michaela Anne facilitate intimate, artist-to-artist conversations with renowned musicians, authors, visual artists and actors about the grit required to sustain a life in the arts. From na... more

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Performing ArtsArtsMusicMusic Interviews

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Artwork for The Other 22 Hours

Latest Episodes

We often look at an artist's career through the lens of industry accolades: the tours, the streaming numbers, the awards. But what happens when you intentionally dismantle your creative ego to build something focused entirely on collective liberation... more

We often treat commercial success as the final destination of a creative life, but for legendary songwriter Matraca Berg, it was just the first act. She was the first woman to have five different country No. 1s in a single year and her songs have bee... more

Behind nearly every influential indie-rock and pop record of the last 15 years has been the brilliant mind and hand of string arranger and multi-instrumentalist Rob Moose. The three-time GRAMMY winner has contributed to thousands of records by the li... more

To celebrate our 150th episode, we try a bit of an experiment: interviewing ourselves, for the first time. After nearly two decades of partnership, we examine the evolution of the creative self. Michaela Anne – whose fifth record, 'These Are The Days... more

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Recent Guests

Matraca Berg
Grammy-nominated songwriter, member of the Songwriter Hall of Fame
Noted songwriter in country music
Episode: Matraca Berg on the Nashville Hit Machine, streaming economics, and getting busted by bro country.
Rob Moose
violinist and string arranger; known for playing on and arranging string parts for numerous indie rock and pop records
Episode: Rob Moose on the feast-or-famine mindset, songs as love letters, and remaining child-like.
Molly Tuttle
Grammy-winning guitarist, banjo player, singer and songwriter
Episode: Molly Tuttle on genre fluidity, artistic anxiety, and micro-managing travel routing.
Jeff Hanna
Singer, guitarist, founding member of Nitty Gritty Dirt Band
Nitty Gritty Dirt Band
Episode: Nitty Gritty Dirt Band (Jeff Hanna) on a 60-year touring career, records with hair on them, and the joy in folding laundry.
Allison Abby Houdak
Writer/editor with extensive lifestyle magazine background
Rolling Stone Country (Senior Music Editor); Nashville lifestyle magazines
Episode: Writing for the soul vs. writing for the brief, from writers to editors.
Jo Houdak
Senior music editor and journalist with Rolling Stone; founder/host of Nashville Now
Rolling Stone Country; Nashville Now
Episode: Writing for the soul vs. writing for the brief, from writers to editors.
Derek Trucks
Legendary guitarist, co-leader of husband-wife duo with Susan Tedeschi
The Tedeschi Trucks Band
Episode: Derek Trucks on collaborative marriage, mentorship, and the healing power of a soundcheck poodle.
Susie Bogguss
Grammy-winning, platinum-selling singer and songwriter
Independent musician / former major label artist
Episode: Suzy Bogguss on pioneering the indie path, the quality of community, and disgusting freezers.
Amaythyst Kiah
Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter, part of Our Native Daughters
Our Native Daughters / Rounder Records
Episode: Amythyst Kiah on psychic sovereignty, success envy, and the self-improvement doom loop.

Hosts

Michaela Anne
Host of The Other 22 Hours; musician, songwriter, and co-host
Aaron Shafer-Haiss
Co-host; host of The Other 22 Hours; musician and journalist

Reviews

4.9 out of 5 stars from 132 ratings
  • Insightful look into the music industry

    As an independent musician , this podcast brings me a lot of joy and solace. Thanks for all the insight and wisdom . Worth a listen for any musician or music fan interest in a clear eyed look into the ups and downs of making a life in the arts .

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    MP south atlanta
    United States2 years ago
  • What a Great Show!

    This is a great podcast! I am not a music professional - simply try to support them - but I really enjoy this podcast. I loved Mary Chapin Carpenter's interview during Season One and adored the recent episode with Larry Campbell & Teresa Williams. Thanks for your work!

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Wanttoleavereview2
    United States2 years ago
  • A wonderful listen for all long-time creatives

    I am very very grateful that this podcast has been created.

    For those working at creating a life in the creative arts - songwriting and music in particular - this is a lovely resource. Listening to these very honest interviews is like water for the desert crossing of keeping at it.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Alma Liisa
    Finland2 years ago
  • Love this podcast!

    Such a fan of this podcast and love its premise! I so appreciate the refreshing honesty and real conversations with amazing musicians and songwriters. Michaela and Aaron are wonderful and do a fabulous job asking the important questions, and exploring topics that are essential to creatives living balanced, fulfilling lives in our a post-Covid world.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    XtinaMae
    United States2 years ago
  • Love it

    Great show. Thoughtful questions, good listeners. The Adia Victoria episode is *wow.*

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Lil' Q
    United States3 years ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Hosts facilitate open, insightful discussions with a calm, approachable vibe.
Guests are well-chosen and diverse within the music/arts space.
Listeners praise the candid, thoughtful conversations and practical career insights.

Chart Rankings

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Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Molly Tuttle on genre fluidity, artistic anxiety, and micro-managing travel routing.
Q: So we always like to start our conversations with just the real question of how are you today? And where are you physically and creatively?
I'm in Nashville with a chill day behind me—coffee in hand, newer interviews and a label meeting completed, and I'm feeling good, though schedule mix-ups reminded me how wild time zones and planning can be.
S.G. Goodman on scarcity mindset, manual labor, and the art of letting go.
Q: Are you feeling that you're currently handling scarcity better now, or are you still making decisions from a place of scarcity?
It's an ongoing process; with a supportive team, I'm less driven by scarcity and more guided by a holistic view of the business, but I still catch myself slipping into old patterns and need to re-center.
Chely Wright on strategic reinvention, the "pink haze" of losing everything, and 10,000 sunrises.
Q: How are you today? And where are you creatively and physically?
Chely mentioned she is okay but wrestling with current events, and she feels gratified and enriched in her corporate role where her creative self is being fed.
Max Wanger on listening to the lull, asking questions, and staying curious.
Q: How have you balanced your personal style with client demands?
I hope to be hired for what I do, but often client demands can restrict creativity. The dream jobs are when clients let me be myself.
Kris Delmhorst on invisible work, trusting slow seasons, and the myth of being seen.
Q: How has being a household with two performing singer-songwriters navigated time and financial focus?
Kris explains that their roles have shifted over the years, especially after having a child. The family's financial needs have sometimes prioritized her husband's career, but they maintain open communication and understanding to balance their careers and family life.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About The Other 22 Hours

What is The Other 22 Hours about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A thoughtful, artist-to-artist conversation in the music and arts space, focusing on sustaining a creative career amid doubt, burnout, and the realities of touring, collaboration, and ownership. Episodes frequently explore themes like creative ownership, vulnerability, lineage and mentorship, balancing personal life with professional ambitions, and navigating industry pressures without compromising integrity. Noteworthy angles include long-running collaborations, genre-fluid experimentation, indie paths vs. major-label dynamics, labor rights for musicians, and the interplay between art, business, and identity. Those considering listening for insider perspectives on navigating a life in the arts will likely find practical tips, candid storie... more

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Which podcasts are similar to The Other 22 Hours?

These podcasts share a similar audience with The Other 22 Hours:

1. Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond
2. Wong Notes
3. The Fretboard Journal Guitar Podcast
4. Song Exploder
5. Revisionist History

How many episodes of The Other 22 Hours are there?

The Other 22 Hours launched 3 years ago and published 154 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on The Other 22 Hours?

Recent guests on The Other 22 Hours include:

1. Matraca Berg
2. Rob Moose
3. Molly Tuttle
4. Jeff Hanna
5. Allison Abby Houdak
6. Jo Houdak
7. Derek Trucks
8. Susie Bogguss

To view more recent guests and their details, simply upgrade your Rephonic account. You'll also get access to a typical guest profile to help you decide if the show is worth pitching.

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