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Artwork for The Messy City Podcast

The Messy City Podcast

Kevin Klinkenberg
Urban Planning
Urban Development
New Urbanism
Community Engagement
Kansas City
Housing Affordability
Architecture
Community Development
Affordable Housing
Housing Crisis
Small-Scale Development
Real Estate Development
Urban Design
Zoning
Strong Towns
Housing Policy
YIMBY Movement
Housing Shortage
Adaptive Zoning Code
Missing Middle Housing

Embracing change, uncertainty and local initiative for our cities and towns kevinklinkenberg.substack.com

PublishesTwice monthlyEpisodes135Founded4 years ago
Number of ListenersCategories
DesignArtsSociety & Culture

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Artwork for The Messy City Podcast

Latest Episodes

Nothing is more enjoyable to me than talking with people who actually get s*it done. Policy and philosophical talk is all well and good, but it gets boring really quickly when it can’t connect to the real world.

Bob Mayer and Caleb Buland are two of... more

For a lot of years, I’ve been a bit loathe to dive deep into the land value tax topic. I’m not entirely sure why that is - it might be that the proponents have a sort of religious zeal for it. LVT seems to be a possible cure-all for all that ails our... more

YouTube

I first came across Chris Arnade with the rollout of his book, “Dignity: Seeking Respect in Back Row America.” It’s a terrific book, and explores community, human struggle and American cities and towns in ways that most books do not. He sort of becam... more

YouTube

For most of my career, people in the urban planning, architecture and development world have almost completely avoided the discussion on crime and order in cities. We seem to like to pretend it’s either not important, or we have nothing to say about ... more

YouTube

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Recent Guests

Lars Doucet
Video game developer, software developer and land value tax researcher
Center for Land Economics
Episode: Talking About the Least Bad Tax
Chris Arnade
Writer, photographer and author of Dignity: Seeking Respect in Back Row America
Episode: A Conversation with Chris Arnade
Jaime Izurieta
Founder, Storefront Mastery; writer, The Vertical Sidewalk
Storefront Mastery; The Vertical Sidewalk
Episode: Property Taxes - How We Got Here
Aaron Lubeck
Developer, advocate for small developers and incremental development
Trinity Design Build (Durham, NC)
Episode: Dissecting Euclid
Steve Mouzon
Architect, author, founder of Original Green
Original Green
Episode: Learning from Rocket City, USA
Dean Klinkenberg
Author of Better Safe Than Sorry; Mississippi River expert and travel writer
Dean Klinkenberg (writer/authors)
Episode: Overcoming the Fear-Industrial Complex
Vince Graham
Developer and historian, South Carolina projects (I'On, etc.)
Private real estate development; South Carolina projects
Episode: Rethinking Infrastructure Finance
Geoff Graham
Developer and historian, Yeoman podcast host
Yeoman podcast; South Carolina development
Episode: Rethinking Infrastructure Finance
Eric Kronberg
Founder/Principal at Kronberg & Associates (architecture, urban design, development)
Kronberg & Associates
Episode: How to Scale Change with Housing

Host

Kevin Klinkenberg
Host of The Messy City Podcast

Reviews

4.9 out of 5 stars from 69 ratings
  • :)

    I love the host’s bias towards action over policy. His guests are so interesting! They are largely people I would never have heard about otherwise, and it’s so instructive to hear their stories. I do wish the host had a better mic. His content quality deserves equivalent sound quality.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    nsmcc
    United States9 months ago
  • Recommended for those interested in cities and places

    As someone with an interest in urban design and improving where I live, I really enjoy the messy city podcast. Kevin is a very knowledgeable and down to earth host, interviews interesting guests, and doesn’t need to over hype. A genuinely good podcast.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    AnAussieListener
    Australia9 months ago
  • A great listen even for non-experts like me

    I’m a dilettante urbanist, and this podcast is one of my favorites for hearing experts break down how to improve our cities in tangible ways. Kevin does a great job of keeping the conversations informative yet still accessible for non-technical folks like me.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    the stellion
    United States2 years ago
  • Econ Dev

    This is my favourite economic development podcast hands down, even ahead of the Strong Towns podcasts. The exploration to incremental development and small developers is super useful information even for small towns. Very insightful and useful conversations. I recommend this to anyone in Econ dev, town/city administration, councils, etc.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Frontball
    Canada2 years ago
  • Great information

    Enjoying listening to what others are doing around the country. Inspiring interviews and discussions.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    Lake Dallas Tiny Home Village
    United States2 years ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Listeners praise actionable, guest-led conversations and the host's practical lens on city-making.
Fans note accessible discussions that still dive into technical aspects of planning and design.
Some listeners wish for more polished audio quality to match high-quality content.
The show is valued for featuring under-the-radar experts and real-world progress in urban development.

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#58
United States/Arts/Design
Apple Podcasts
#153
Canada/Arts/Design
Apple Podcasts
#125
Australia/Arts/Design
Apple Podcasts
#199
France/Arts/Design
Apple Podcasts
#228
Germany/Arts/Design
Apple Podcasts
#20
Denmark/Arts/Design

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Talking About the Least Bad Tax
Q: If I wanted to, if my city wanted to initiate a land value tax, what are the chances that I need like a state enabling legislation for that to happen?
Doucet says the answer depends on state law and constitutional uniformity clauses. Some places can use separate property classes or building exemptions, while others may need a constitutional amendment or could consider temporary abatements on improvements.
Talking About the Least Bad Tax
Q: What's the elevator pitch for what a land value tax is and what the top two or three benefits are for changing to this approach versus how many places do property taxes today?
Doucet defines it as a property tax on land value rather than buildings. He says it can reduce disincentives to build, is less economically distortive than taxes on produced assets, and can encourage valuable sites to be put to use.
A Conversation with Chris Arnade
Q: How do you feel like that has changed you or your perceptions about the world or about how people live in cities?
Arnade says walking across cities exposes him to the varied experiences of multiple neighborhoods, rather than only the areas visitors or professionals tend to see. He believes urban planners and mayors should ride buses and experience the city firsthand before making policy.
A Conversation with Chris Arnade
Q: What's your impression about the quality of food? First of all, do you think that's like an accurate impression, you know, America versus the rest of the world in terms of that quality of inexpensive food? And why might it be different here?
Arnade says the United States has excellent high-end cuisine, but everyday inexpensive food is generally better in places such as Japan, France and Italy. He attributes the difference to food culture, care for ingredients and fewer zoning barriers that let small, family-run restaurants open in more neighborhoods.
How to Scale Change with Housing
Q: Why focus on small-scale housing rather than large multifamily projects?
Smaller projects are cost-effective, faster to entitle and build, and unlock a much broader base of housing providers, including individual homeowners and local contractors, which can dramatically expand supply.

Audience Metrics

Listeners, social reach, demographics and more for this podcast.

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Frequently Asked Questions About The Messy City Podcast

What is The Messy City Podcast about and what kind of topics does it cover?

This show consistently explores urban development, housing policy, and local governance through conversations with developers, planners, designers, and filmmakers. Episodes thread practical strategies for incremental urban change, affordable housing, and walkable neighborhoods with real-world case studies from Midwest and other midsize cities. A standout trait is its hands-on, debt-to-decision maker approach—prioritizing actionable insights, community engagement, and human-centered design—often framed through a local, livable city lens. Listeners can expect grounded, experience-driven discussions that bridge policy, financing, and on-the-ground execution, with a recurring emphasis on local agency and small-scale projects as catalysts for bi... more

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Which podcasts are similar to The Messy City Podcast?

These podcasts share a similar audience with The Messy City Podcast:

1. The Strong Towns Podcast
2. Upzoned
3. The Bottom-Up Revolution
4. The War on Cars
5. The Urbanist Agenda

How many episodes of The Messy City Podcast are there?

The Messy City Podcast launched 4 years ago and published 135 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on The Messy City Podcast?

Recent guests on The Messy City Podcast include:

1. Lars Doucet
2. Chris Arnade
3. Jaime Izurieta
4. Aaron Lubeck
5. Steve Mouzon
6. Dean Klinkenberg
7. Vince Graham
8. Geoff Graham

To view more recent guests and their details, simply upgrade your Rephonic account. You'll also get access to a typical guest profile to help you decide if the show is worth pitching.

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