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Artwork for The Last Line of Defense
Iran
China
Russia
Ukraine
United States
Venezuela
Taiwan
Donald Trump
Xi Jinping
US Military Operations
Maduro
Drug Trafficking
NATO
Rare Earth Minerals
Cuba
Nicolás Maduro
Delcy Rodríguez
Latin America
Operation Midnight Hammer
Protests

In this era of uncertainty, knowledge is power. Hosted by Dr. Seth G. Jones, The Last Line of Defense breaks down and analyzes the latest national security news. Each episode provides practical solutions to the toughest national security questions—from war and peace around the world to the role of emerging technology in defense. Produced by Marla Hiller.

PublishesTwice monthlyEpisodes28Foundeda year ago
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Latest Episodes

Host Dr. Seth Jones sits down with Dr. Dan Byman, director of the Warfare, Irregular Threats, and Terrorism Program at CSIS and professor at Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service, to mark the twenty-fifth anniversary of the terrorist atta... more

Host Seth Jones sits down with Frank Kendall, former Secretary of the U.S. Air Force and former Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics, to discuss his new book, Lethal Autonomy: The Future of Warfare Whether We Like It ... more

Host Seth Jones sits down with General Sir Nick Carter, who served as Chief of the Defence Staff and Chief of the General Staff in the UK military, for an assessment of the changing character of warfare. Drawing on decades of military leadership and ... more

Host Seth Jones sits down with Robert Cardillo, former director of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, for an assessment of space as an emerging domain of modern warfare. Drawing on decades of experience in the intelligence community and his... more

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Recent Guests

Dan Byman
Georgetown University professor and Director of the Warfare, Irregular Threats, and Terrorism Program at CSIS
Georgetown University; CSIS
Episode: 25 Years After 9/11: Is America Prepared for the Next Crisis?
Frank Kendall
Former Secretary of the Air Force; author of Lethal Autonomy
U.S. Department of Defense / Former Air Force
Episode: Are Soldiers Obsolete? How Autonomy Will Define the Coming Conflict with China
General Sir Nick Carter
Former Chief of the General Staff and Chief of the Defence Staff, British Army
British Army
Episode: How Close Are We to World War III? A UK General on Iran, Ukraine, and the Changing Character of War
Robert Cardillo
Former Director of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, Executive Chairman of IONQ
IONQ (Executive Chairman)
Episode: From Orbit to the Battlefield: The Future of Space Capabilities
Leon Panetta
Former US Secretary of Defense and CIA Director; Board of Trustees at CSIS
Former U.S. Secretary of Defense, Former CIA Director
Episode: Ex-CIA and Pentagon Chief Warns: Iran, the Homeland, and Challenges Ahead
Mick Ryan
General (retired) Australian Army, discussed Ukraine war experience
Australian Army (former)
Episode: Is Ukraine Winning? Inside the Battlefield of Drones, AI, and Autonomous Warfare
Roger Zakheim
Washington Director of the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute
Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute
Episode: The Surprising Truth About How Americans See NATO, China, and Iran
Walter Russell Mead
Distinguished fellow in strategy and statesmanship at the Hudson Institute; Alexander Hamilton Professor of Strategy and Statecraft at the University of Florida
Hudson Institute; University of Florida
Episode: The World Turned Upside Down: The Aftermath of the Iran War
Ben Hodges
General, United States Army (former Commanding General, U.S. Army Europe)
United States Army
Episode: Cracks in the Armor: Russia’s Military Struggles and the G7 Aftermath

Host

Seth Jones
Host of The Last Line of Defense; senior national security analyst with CSIS.

Reviews

5.0 out of 5 stars from 23 ratings
  • Clear, Smart, and Refreshingly Balanced

    This is one of the few podcasts in this space that feels genuinely clear-headed and grounded. The conversations are thoughtful, well-informed, and never slip into slogans or talking points.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    aDevl3
    United States6 months ago
  • Recommend

    Wonderful show with great potential.

    Apple Podcasts
    5
    RJG179
    United States7 months ago

Listeners Say

Key themes from listener reviews, highlighting what works and what could be improved about the show.

Thoughtful, well-informed conversations with practical implications.
Clear, Smart, and Refreshingly Balanced talking points that avoid sloganeering.
Data-driven insights make complex topics accessible.
Polished hosting and credible sourcing add reliability.
High-quality guest lineup and rigorous analysis.

Chart Rankings

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Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Are Soldiers Obsolete? How Autonomy Will Define the Coming Conflict with China
Q: How does the concept of the offsets inform today's modernization efforts?
The offsets show that military advantage is not enduring; successive generations of technology—precision weapons, networking, autonomy—create temporary advantages that must be continually refreshed through rapid modernization and new operational concepts.
Are Soldiers Obsolete? How Autonomy Will Define the Coming Conflict with China
Q: What are the biggest challenges to adopting lethal autonomy in practice?
Key challenges include cultural resistance within armed forces, legal and humanitarian concerns, accountability for autonomous decisions, and ensuring robust rules of engagement that prevent undesired outcomes under stress.
Are Soldiers Obsolete? How Autonomy Will Define the Coming Conflict with China
Q: Why did you write this book and what is the core premise about future warfare?
The core premise is that warfare will increasingly rely on autonomous, unmanned systems across all domains, with humans remaining in control at the strategic and battle-management levels to set the rules and ensure ethical use; this shift could redefine deterrence and fighting power.
How Close Are We to World War III? A UK General on Iran, Ukraine, and the Changing Character of War
Q: How worried should we be about World War III, and what would deter such a conflict?
While nuclear deterrence creates fragile stability and major powers have incentives to avoid full-scale war, there is a risk of limited escalations and subversion; deterrence should focus on resilience, credible defenses, and readiness to deter across multiple theaters, including cyber and space.
How Close Are We to World War III? A UK General on Iran, Ukraine, and the Changing Character of War
Q: How do you see the role of autonomous systems shaping future company and battalion-level leadership?
Autonomous systems will enable frontline commanders to prosecute the fight with reduced direct human contact for extended periods, but success will depend on a strong foundation of mission command, junior leadership, and a robust doctrinal and training framework that integrates new tech with traditional tactics.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About The Last Line of Defense

What is The Last Line of Defense about and what kind of topics does it cover?

A rigorous briefing on national security, geopolitics, and technology with a focus on strategy, policy, and real-world implications. Episodes frequently dissect Ukraine, Iran, China, Russia, NATO, and space-enabled warfare, often featuring senior policymakers, generals, diplomats, and defense analysts who bring historical context and data-driven insight to current events. The show stands out for its detailed, strategic framing—balancing military capability, alliance dynamics, and technology trends (including drones, AI, and space assets)—and for inviting guests with deep government, military, and think-tank credentials. Listeners likely include defense professionals, policymakers, analysts, and corporate partners seeking high-signal analysi... more

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1. Russian Roulette
2. The Asia Chessboard
3. ChinaPower
4. Pekingology
5. The President’s Inbox

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The Last Line of Defense launched a year ago and published 28 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on The Last Line of Defense?

Recent guests on The Last Line of Defense include:

1. Dan Byman
2. Frank Kendall
3. General Sir Nick Carter
4. Robert Cardillo
5. Leon Panetta
6. Mick Ryan
7. Roger Zakheim
8. Walter Russell Mead

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