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The Art of Diplomacy

Munich Security Conference
NATO
Ukraine
Munich Security Conference
Diplomacy
Germany
Iran JCPOA
The Art Of Diplomacy
European Union
NATO Defense College
Munich
France
Human Rights
Zeitenwende
Dayton Peace Accords
Rome
Eurasia Group
Foreign Affairs
Transatlantic Relationship
Strategic Autonomy
Europe

The Art of Diplomacy is a bi-weekly podcast that brings global politics down from the podium and into conversation. Hosted by Florence Gaub and Joshua Yaffa, and created by the Munich Security Conference, it opens up the often opaque world of diplomacy to a broader audience. Through in-depth one-on-one interviews, the podcast explores diplomacy as a craft. Each episode features experienced practit... more

PublishesTwice monthlyEpisodes9Founded4 months ago
Number of ListenersCategories
PoliticsNews

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Artwork for The Art of Diplomacy

Latest Episodes

After a lifetime spent at the center of international diplomacy, Ambassador Wolfgang Ischinger joins Florence Gaub and Joshua Yaffa for the season finale of The Art of Diplomacy.

From the Dayton Peace Accords to German reunification, from the United ... more

In this episode of The Art of Diplomacy, Joshua Yaffa speaks with Wendy Sherman, former US Deputy Secretary of State and the lead American negotiator of the Iran nuclear agreement.

Drawing on decades of experience, from negotiations with North Korea ... more

In this episode of The Art of Diplomacy, Josh Yaffa speaks with Wolfgang Schmidt, former Head of the German Chancellery and one of Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s closest advisers during the first years of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

Schmidt of... more

In this episode of The Art of Diplomacy, Florence Gaub speaks with former Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin.

Leading a country through a pandemic, an energy crisis, Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and Finland’s historic accession to NATO, ... more

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Recent Guests

Wolfgang Ischinger
Ambassador, former State Secretary, former MSC Chairman
German Foreign Office / Munich Security Conference (MSC)
Episode: The End of an Era, The Beginning of Another (with Wolfgang Ischinger)
Wendy Sherman
Former US Secretary of State; lead American negotiator of the JCPOA
U.S. Government
Episode: Persistence, Power, and the Iran Deal (with Wendy Sherman)
Wolfgang Schmidt
Former head of the German Chancellery and chief coordinator of intelligence services
German government / Chancellor's Office
Episode: Boiling the Frog — Germany, Ukraine, and Escalation (with Wolfgang Schmidt)
Sanna Marin
Former Prime Minister of Finland
Finnish Government / Finnish leadership
Episode: Changing Your Mind without Losing Yourself (with Sanna Marin)
Zeid bin Ra'ad bin Zeid al-Hussein
Jordanian diplomat, former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, former President of the Assembly of States Parties to the ICC
International Peace Institute (CEO)
Episode: Diplomacy in the Time of Monsters (with Zeid Ra’ad Al Hussein)
Benjamin Haddad
Minister Delegate for European Affairs
France – Ministry for Europe and Foreign Affairs
Episode: Diplomacy is Poker, Not Chess (with Benjamin Haddad)
Ian Bremmer
Founder and head of Eurasia Group; political scientist and commentator
Eurasia Group
Episode: Why Diplomacy Needs a Stage (with Ian Bremmer and Dan Kurtz-Phelan)
Daniel Kurtz-Phelan
Editor-in-Chief of Foreign Affairs
Foreign Affairs
Episode: Why Diplomacy Needs a Stage (with Ian Bremmer and Dan Kurtz-Phelan)
Rafael Grossi
Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency
International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA)
Episode: Empathy, Discipline, and Staying Neutral (with Rafael Grossi)

Hosts

Florence Gaub
Host of The Art of Diplomacy
Joshua Yaffa
Co-host of The Art of Diplomacy; staff writer for The New Yorker

Chart Rankings

How this podcast ranks in the Apple Podcasts, Spotify and YouTube charts.

Apple Podcasts
#63
Italy/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#202
Germany/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#246
Italy/News
Apple Podcasts
#36
Ukraine/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#80
South Korea/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#183
Ukraine/News
Apple Podcasts
#195
Saudi Arabia/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#229
India/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#235
Argentina/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#241
Switzerland/News/Politics
Apple Podcasts
#245
Finland/News/Politics

Talking Points

Recent interactions between the hosts and their guests.

Persistence, Power, and the Iran Deal (with Wendy Sherman)
Q: What personal dynamics helped Sherman manage the North Korea talks and later JCPOA negotiations?
Her approach combined deep preparation, cultural understanding, and the ability to read room dynamics, using respect for counterparties and flexibility to manage sensitive issues, which built trust and facilitated progress even under tough conditions.
Persistence, Power, and the Iran Deal (with Wendy Sherman)
Q: What was the role of Europe and the EU in sustaining the JCPOA, and how did that differ from later efforts?
Europe acted as a coordinating partner, keeping the coalition intact and leveraging the EU framework to sustain talks with Iran, a role that gave the negotiations broader legitimacy and leverage beyond bilateral U.S.–Iran dynamics.
Persistence, Power, and the Iran Deal (with Wendy Sherman)
Q: How did backchannel talks complement the formal negotiations in the JCPOA process?
Backchannel talks provided deniability and room to test ideas before they could be publicly scrutinized, allowing for candid exchanges and alignment among key actors, which then fed into the formal negotiations.
The End of an Era, The Beginning of Another (with Wolfgang Ischinger)
Q: What conversations or negotiations from your Washington years feel possible then but seem out of reach now, especially in light of the 'under destruction' theme MSC has embraced?
Despite disagreements—like the Iraq War era—the transatlantic relationship retained its core purpose, and there were opportunities to build on shared NATO values; the current moment requires rethinking how to reestablish trust and a common purpose through disciplined, quiet diplomacy and renewed institutions.
The End of an Era, The Beginning of Another (with Wolfgang Ischinger)
Q: Can you give us a sense of the flavor of diplomatic conversations happening today? What has changed in how Europeans and Americans talk to each other behind closed doors?
There has been a shift from a shared, values-based purpose to a more transactional, interest-driven dialogue, and there is a sense that the common purpose binding the West has weakened, making joint action more challenging.

Audience Metrics

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Frequently Asked Questions About The Art of Diplomacy

What is The Art of Diplomacy about and what kind of topics does it cover?

The show centers on practical diplomacy through candid conversations with veteran practitioners, emphasizing how decisions are made under pressure, how negotiations unfold, and how international crises are managed. Across episodes, listeners get insights into diplomacy as a craft—from understanding shifting alliances and crisis management to the personal disciplines that sustain leaders and negotiators. Notable strengths include in-depth one-on-one interviews tied to the Munich Security Conference milieu, a blend of policy analysis and frontline diplomacy, and a talent for translating high-stakes geopolitics into actionable takeaways for professionals in government, business, and journalism. The format tends to favor big-picture context alo... more

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Which podcasts are similar to The Art of Diplomacy?

These podcasts share a similar audience with The Art of Diplomacy:

1. Machtwechsel
2. POLITICO Berlin Playbook
3. Table Today – mit Michael Bröcker und Helene Bubrowski
4. Spitzengespräch
5. Sicherheitshalber

How many episodes of The Art of Diplomacy are there?

The Art of Diplomacy launched 4 months ago and published 9 episodes to date. You can find more information about this podcast including rankings, audience demographics and engagement in our podcast database.

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What guests have appeared on The Art of Diplomacy?

Recent guests on The Art of Diplomacy include:

1. Wolfgang Ischinger
2. Wendy Sherman
3. Wolfgang Schmidt
4. Sanna Marin
5. Zeid bin Ra'ad bin Zeid al-Hussein
6. Benjamin Haddad
7. Ian Bremmer
8. Daniel Kurtz-Phelan

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